Stay locked up after they serve their time?

Started by TehBorken, Mar 01 07 11:10

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TheAngel

   tenkani wrote:

"But if your argument truly is that someone should be murdered to save the state money (since protecting the public is not an issue), then I would have to respectfully disagree. Let the Chinese put a price tag on human life. I would hope we would hold ourselves to a higher standard."

That is not[span style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;"] my [/span]argument. Not at all. Price is not an issue.  You can't put a price on someone's life, especially not in that way.  That is when the judicial enforcers become criminals themselves.




   

tenkani

Folks who become obsessed with absolute safety can present as large a threat to society as criminals IMHO. Think of all the liberal soccer moms who voted for George Bush in a misguided attempt to safeguard their young. We have to accept a certain amount of risk simply living in a modern society. Too many folks these days would happily cast off their civil liberties in an effort to make life just a little bit safer. George Carlin might call this the creeping "pussification" factor.

  "The love of justice in most men is only the fear of themselves suffering by injustice."
-François de la Rochefoucauld

  EDIT: My bad. I was talking to Russ in my last post, not you Angel.
For thou art with me; thy cream and thy sugar they comfort me
Thou preparest a carafe before me in the presence of Juan Valdez
Thou anointest my day with pep; my mug runneth over
Surely richness and taste shall follow me all the days of my life
And I will dwell in the house of coffee forever.

TheAngel

  Russ wrote:
"Im actually a firm believer of gps implanted tracking in released serious crimes criminals, repeat offenders, and sexual predators."


How would that deter crime?



 
 

 

tenkani

While we're on the subject, I do believe that ending a criminal's life would be in order if he/she is unrepentent and promises to do more of the same, if ever he/she were to be released.   How would that be more ethical than keeping them in prison for life?

For one thing, wouldn't you have to assume that they would never change their minds?

You would murder someone based on their stated intention even if you had the power to lock them up and prevent them from threatening society?
For thou art with me; thy cream and thy sugar they comfort me
Thou preparest a carafe before me in the presence of Juan Valdez
Thou anointest my day with pep; my mug runneth over
Surely richness and taste shall follow me all the days of my life
And I will dwell in the house of coffee forever.

pitbullca.bc

that was my point earlier...gps won't prevent the crime...but it could save hours and dollars in a hunt for an offender.  Keep records on offenders whereabouts.

I don't talk about euthanizing human beings like murder...unless we start saying that euthanizing animals (more like dogs I should say)is murder.  I live a simple life..and I like it that way...so...I think of simple solutions I guess you could say.  

I don't think that castration will completely help either..in deterring sex offenders.  It isn't their balls that they are using to hurt people.  

tenkani

"Euthanize" is simply a more palatable word for a detestable thing.

When you, in cold blood, kill someone who is restrained and no immediate threat to anyone it is murder. If you aren't doing it to protect society then it's for revenge. We are one of a very few 1st world countries that murder our inmates, and there is a good reason for it. The others have realized that committing murder in response to murder is barbaric.

  Again, a dog is not a human being. It is closer biologically to a human being than a flea, certainly, but "humanity" or "worth of a life" or whatever you want to call it I think we would all agree works on a sliding scale so repeatedly comparing the cold-blooded execution of a human being to killing a dog is a red herring.  
For thou art with me; thy cream and thy sugar they comfort me
Thou preparest a carafe before me in the presence of Juan Valdez
Thou anointest my day with pep; my mug runneth over
Surely richness and taste shall follow me all the days of my life
And I will dwell in the house of coffee forever.

tenkani

[SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold"]"What if that child was your neice for example?"[/SPAN]    I would want to rip that person to shreds myself and would probably demand it.

But that's irrelevant. Even as I cried out to be allowed to murder that person, I would know in my heart that it wouldn't be justice. Sure, blood rage is part of our nature. It doesn't make it right.  
For thou art with me; thy cream and thy sugar they comfort me
Thou preparest a carafe before me in the presence of Juan Valdez
Thou anointest my day with pep; my mug runneth over
Surely richness and taste shall follow me all the days of my life
And I will dwell in the house of coffee forever.

pitbullca.bc

If you aren't doing it to protect society then it's for revenge.

  In the end...whether it be dog...or man or woman...it IS to protect society.  From a reoccurance...because...if it should happen again...it has already happened and can't be taken back.  That is my point.  I am not talking about beating man or dog to death.  Shooting...I am talking about humane injection.  One that is a deep and endless sleep perhaps.  

TheAngel

 tenkani wrote:
[em]"What if that child was your neice for example?"[/em]  
I would want to rip that person to shreds myself and would probably demand it.
But that's irrelevant. Even as I cried out to be allowed to murder that person, I would know in my heart that it wouldn't be justice. Sure, blood rage is part of our nature. It doesn't make it right.


[/div] [div style="font-weight: bold;"]Alright then, we are back to figuring out [span style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;"]socially acceptable, humane[/span] ways of both deterring crime and meting out justice.



tenkani

If you have the option of locking someone up for life as they do in most other 1st world countries then you AREN'T protecting society by murdering the murderer. And doing it with a needle doesn't change the nature of the act. A dog is a dog. A human being is a human being. I don't believe in cruelty to animals but I would not hesitate to sacrifice a dog for the life of a human being if forced to make the choice.

  Poeple who like to compare people accused of crimes to lower animals make me nervous. Remember that the nazis compared jews to rats in order to dehumanize them so that the German people would more readily agree to their extermination.

  No, you're not Hitler either.    
For thou art with me; thy cream and thy sugar they comfort me
Thou preparest a carafe before me in the presence of Juan Valdez
Thou anointest my day with pep; my mug runneth over
Surely richness and taste shall follow me all the days of my life
And I will dwell in the house of coffee forever.

TheAngel


Russ

 Oh no. Im not saying execute solely for money. The person will get the required and same number of appeals as everyone else, that is the way our system of law works.

   If they have commited a serious crime, and given a life sentence.. why keep them alive clogging up the overcrowded prisons, requiring all this security, food and medical services. We have shortages of everything already in society. And everyone is now crying about wasted resources.. how is this not?

  It will have an effect on people, with the chance of getting executed for a crime, it will not stop the crazies but it will stop of the more 'in the middle' people.

      Actually, in a way I guess I am, thinking about it now. I havent looked at it that way before. hmm.

  But, in a way you almost have to. We are having a shortage of public health and other services due to lack of money already. The average person charged and incarcerated with a crime recieving life imprisonment is between 22 and 37(? cant remember but its around there).. and at 100k a year at TODAYS costs with the average person living to 80 years old is between 4-5 million dollars. thats not including future inflation.

  Now look at the average wage in canada being 37,000 a year (2005). That should speak volumes by itself but look as well at the taxes on that, its like 15.5k per year. So by people alone paying their entire income tax towards keeping a person in prison is 6-7 taxpayers.

     
Mercy to the Guilty is Torture to the Victims

TheAngel

 tenkani wrote:
"People who like to compare people accused of crimes to lower animals make me nervous."

Agreed.

tenkani

I don't have any ideas on how to prevent crime right now, Angel, because I'm a pittbull and very single-minded    ;)

  Oh no. Im not saying execute solely for money. The person will get the required and same number of appeals as everyone else, that is the way our system of law works.



If they have commited a serious crime, and given a life sentence.. why keep them alive clogging up the overcrowded prisons, requiring all this security, food and medical services. We have shortages of everything already in society. And everyone is now crying about wasted resources.. how is this not?

  The thing is, when the death penatly is concerned, Russ, people get extra appeals because any mistake would obviously have more dire consequences. So you would like the extra appeals to be eliminated?
For thou art with me; thy cream and thy sugar they comfort me
Thou preparest a carafe before me in the presence of Juan Valdez
Thou anointest my day with pep; my mug runneth over
Surely richness and taste shall follow me all the days of my life
And I will dwell in the house of coffee forever.

Russ

Um, Im a HUGE fan of civil liberties and I would hate the fact of big brother everywhere. I already dont like the idea of  tolling cars by how much they drive tracked by GPS's.

I already say that we are almost a police state by how innocent people are harrased.

  I do not think everyone should have the gps units. but I think the people I named should. You do know that people that are on house arrest, have bracelets around thier ankles that do just this.. rihgt? Its there just not completely applied yet, but they use it to keep track of and find out where these people go.

  This is just my opinions... which I do change on occasion with different information.  
Mercy to the Guilty is Torture to the Victims

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