Do you believe in tipping?

[TehBorken]

 ripper wrote:
As far as the restaurants go, they have a pretty high overhead.

That's really their problem, isn't it? Why should you or I make up for this shortfall or unrealistic pricing scheme?


If they were to pay their staff  union rates, who could afford to eat out but a select few.

Again, why should this be our problem? Eating out isn't a right. If you can afford to do so, great. But none of us have any responsibility to cover what is, in effect, fraudulent pricing by the resturaunt owners, do we?


By keeping the prices reasonable, they allow us to basically tell the wait staff what their service is really worth.
Their service is worth what they pay the wait staff, not what we pay them. And why should they care, really? If they'll deliver reasonable service at a reasonable price, I'm happy. Why should I pay them more just to get fair or reasonable treatment?

[TehBorken]

    P.C. wrote:
[div style="font-style: italic;"]edit: But to look to the public to pick up the slack for their employers refusal to pay their worth is flat out wrong.[/div]  
 BINGO. My thoughts exactly. If they cannot make it on what they're paid, they need to seek another line of work, improve their education, picket for higher wages, etc etc. But it's not incumbent on me to ensure they make enough money to support themselves any more than it's their responsibilty to make sure I make enough money. They don't tip me for building a website that they use for free, do they?


 

[TehBorken]

I've decided that I just don't make enough money, so from now on I want all to you to tip me. This is only fair, and I'm sure you'll agree that I deserve it for providing such exemplary service. Send me 15% of whatever is in your wallet right now to:

TehBorken Tip Fund
c/o DiscoverSeattle.net
Seattle WA 98028

[P.C.]

OK TB.....that sounds reasonable.....and if everyone else is going to do it....then I am too.  [img style="CURSOR: pointer" onclick=url(this.src); src="vny!://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/more/bigs/c028.gif" border=0]

    Tipping started back in a time when servers were not paid wages.  This is no longer the case.  The reasons for tipping changed over the years, but conforming to social norms and avoiding embarrassment are generally the main reasons.

   According to the Internal Revenue Service, Americans paid out $14 billion in tips last year, and that is almost certainly a severe undercount.  That's billions....with a B.  Holy moly!

[ripper]

 Holy moly is right. That's alot of  money. I'll now have to rethink how much to tip. They probably make more money than me.

[CK]

Tipping? Not always.

One time at what I thought was a decent restaurant near Sunnyvale, California, I had the shittiest service EVER! Snooty, pathetic waiter scowled at us just asking for water. Food was averege, slow, rude...the list goes on.

Whatever, no tip sounds right. We pay for the meals, walk out to the parking lot. The waiter comes running out "Sir! Sir! You forgot the tip Sir!"

My Tip was "get away from us, before I smash your teeth in!".

He went back inside.  

[P.C.]

I've heard of people who have pulled in as much as $600.00 in tips on a good night.  Of course that's not going to happen at your local IHOP.

  The restaurant attached to the business where I work has the waitresses taking home in tips almost as much in an hour as I make in a day.....and my base wage is higher than theirs.  

[P.C.]

Here's another classic.  I almost go into convulsions when I hear this    ".....and would you like your change?"

[Lise]

P.C. wrote:
Here's another classic.  I almost go into convulsions when I hear this    ".....and would you like your change?"  

 I hear ya, PC. I always get a tad annoyed at that. Let me be the judge to see whether or not I should leave you a tip from my change.

 Oh here's another one that's annoying. Fast food cashiers who have their tip jars in front of you. Why should I give you tips for paying for my food at a fast food joint? It's ridiculous to have a tip jar there.

 On the Princess cruise lines, tipping is MANDATORY. I couldn't believe it. You're asked to tip $US10 per day regardless of service. Isn't that incredible? I agree that the service was good but to demand payment from your customers after you've paid for everything..... seems so wrong. The only way to dispute this is to head to their service desk early in the morning of your departure to settle your account or else it's automatically deducted from your credit card.

 I don't mind paying the people who work hard to go their way to service me on the cruise ship but I'm against this policy and the really sh***y wages they're being paid.


 

[Queer Eye]

 [TABLE style="TABLE-LAYOUT: fixed" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width="100%"] [TBODY] [TR] [TD style="OVERFLOW: hidden" vAlign=top width="16%" rowSpan=2][A title="View the profile of P.C." href="vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=05e5db796b9808b475e8a129b1cba652&action=profile;u=8"][FONT color=#000000]P.C.[/FONT][/A]   [DIV class=smalltext]Administrator
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  [TABLE style="TABLE-LAYOUT: fixed" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width="100%"] [TBODY] [TR] [TD style="OVERFLOW: hidden" vAlign=top width="16%" rowSpan=2][A title="View the profile of TehBorken" href="vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=84a4df7cf7b011882e7f3d9c1880e3fc&action=profile;u=39"][FONT color=#000000]TehBorken[/FONT][/A]   [DIV class=smalltext]-----------------
SuperHero Member
[/A][/TD] [TD vAlign=center align=left][A href="vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=84a4df7cf7b011882e7f3d9c1880e3fc&topic=4125.msg59862#msg59862"][FONT color=#000000]Re: Do you believe in tipping?[/FONT][/A]   [DIV class=smalltext]« Reply #39 on: Feb 20 07 »[/DIV][/TD] [TD style="FONT-SIZE: smaller" vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right height=20][A onclick="if (!currentSwap) doQuote(59862); else window.location.XXXX = this.href; return false;" href="vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=84a4df7cf7b011882e7f3d9c1880e3fc&action=post;quote=59862;topic=4125.30;num_replies=53;sesc=8550537496ca4c57cd675142458622d1"][FONT color=#000000]Reply with quote[/FONT][/A] [/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE] [HR class=hrcolor width="100%" SIZE=1]    [DIV style="OVERFLOW: auto; WIDTH: 100%"]You don't tip your doctor or plumber or mechanic, do you?  

[FONT color=#ff7f00]In a way you do.  If you go to 3 different plumbers or mechanics, you'll get 3 different estimates for the exact same job.  Why?  If you feel that the 2 more expensive ones are not providing you better service than the cheapest guy but ripping you off, then how long would the more expensive 2 stay in business?[/FONT]

 [FONT color=#ff7f00]There isn't much difference in the quality of service that a family or ER doctor provides since they more or less are interchangeable with their colleagues.  How hard is it to take a pulse, blood pressure, measure height/weight etc?  An ER doc's job is harder, but each ER doc will approach each patient more or less the same.  Plastic surgery definitely depends on the skill of the surgeon, and there's a huge variation in their work, hence the large variation in price.[/FONT]

 If they cannot make it on what they're paid, they need to seek another line of work, improve their education, picket for higher wages, etc etc. But it's not incumbent on me to ensure they make enough money to support themselves any more than it's their responsibilty to make sure I make enough money. They don't tip me for building a website that they use for free, do they?

 [FONT color=#ff7f00]Again, if employers paid them more, the price of your food will increase so how are you ahead?  It's kind of like paying a kid for shoveling the driveway.  Don't you think he'd do a better job if you paid him $10 up front and more later depending on how good of a job he did, or would he do a better job if you just gave him $12 up front?[/FONT]

 [FONT color=#ff7f00]Do all webmasters charge exactly the same price?  Why not?  How is this different than a tip?[/FONT]

 [FONT color=#ff7f00][/FONT]

 

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 [TABLE style="TABLE-LAYOUT: fixed" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width="100%"] [TBODY] [TR] [TD style="OVERFLOW: hidden" vAlign=top width="16%" rowSpan=2][A title="View the profile of P.C." href="vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=8"][FONT color=#000000]P.C.[/FONT][/A]   [DIV class=smalltext]Administrator
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[A href="vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=8"][FONT color=#000000]View Profile[/FONT][/A] [/DIV][/TD] [TD vAlign=top width="85%" height="100%"] [TABLE width="100%" border=0] [TBODY] [TR] [TD vAlign=center align=left][A href="vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php/topic,4125.msg59895.html#msg59895"][img alt="" src="vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/Themes/default/images/post/xx.gif[/img][/A][/TD] [TD vAlign=center align=left][A href="vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php/topic,4125.msg59895.html#msg59895"][FONT color=#000000]Re: Do you believe in tipping?[/FONT][/A]   [DIV class=smalltext]« Reply #51 on: Feb 20 07 »[/DIV][/TD] [TD style="FONT-SIZE: smaller" vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right height=20][A onclick="if (!currentSwap) doQuote(59895); else window.location.XXXX = this.href; return false;" href="vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?action=post;quote=59895;topic=4125.45;num_replies=53;sesc=8550537496ca4c57cd675142458622d1"][FONT color=#000000]Reply with quote[/FONT][/A] [/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE] [HR class=hrcolor width="100%" SIZE=1]    [DIV style="OVERFLOW: auto; WIDTH: 100%"] I've heard of people who have pulled in as much as $600.00 in tips on a good night.  Of course that's not going to happen at your local IHOP.

  The restaurant attached to the business where I work has the waitresses taking home in tips almost as much in an hour as I make in a day.....and my base wage is higher than theirs.

[FONT color=#ff7f00]Is it really that easy to collect $600 in tips?  If it is, wouldn't everyone be doing it?  Aren't the waitresses better looking and provide better service than IHOP?  Even if you believe the service is not that different, you'll agree that it's much harder to get a job as a waitress at a fancy restaurant than the local IHOP, so they should be rewarded on that level.[/FONT]

 [FONT color=#ff7f00]People also complain about about sports stars making millions versus minor leaguers.  Who's stopping the minor leaguers from making the big league team?  Nobody![/FONT]

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[Gopher]

[A href="vny!://www.people.howstuffworks.com/tipping.htm"]vny!://www.people.howstuffworks.com/tipping.htm[/A]

[TehBorken]

   > You don't tip your doctor or plumber or mechanic, do you?  

In a way you do.  If you go to 3 different plumbers or mechanics, you'll get 3 different estimates for the exact same job.  Why?

Simple- because they charge different amounts. Not because one gets a tip and the others don't. And I would choose them based on my perception of them and their skills, generally not just because of what their hourly rates are.


If you feel that the 2 more expensive ones are not providing you better service than the cheapest guy but ripping you off, then how long would the more expensive 2 stay in business?

I'm sorry, I just don't see the connection between this and tipping. The plumbers specify their price upfront, letting you know in advance what they charge. There's no discretionary amount that you may or may not add to the bill based on your perception of their service. They bill you X number of dollars, and that's what you pay, period.



There isn't much difference in the quality of service that a family or ER doctor provides since they more or less are interchangeable with their colleagues.

There's a huge difference. The price is set. Your doctor or nurse doesn't bill you for $100 and then expect you pay them something additional for "good service". Sorry, but you're tanking on this one, QE.


How hard is it to take a pulse, blood pressure, measure height/weight etc?  An ER doc's job is harder, but each ER doc will approach each patient more or less the same.  Plastic surgery definitely depends on the skill of the surgeon, and there's a huge variation in their work, hence the large variation in price.

Again, however, the price is set. They don't bill you for some amount and then expect you pay them something additional for "good service".



Again, if employers paid them more, the price of your food will increase so how are you ahead?  

It's not a matter of being "ahead". It's a matter of paying to get the same basic service I should have gotten for the price of the original bill.


It's kind of like paying a kid for shoveling the driveway.  Don't you think he'd do a better job if you paid him $10 up front and more later depending on how good of a job he did, or would he do a better job if you just gave him $12 up front?

I don't think it would matter much, to be frank. If we agreed on a set service for a set price, that's what we should both agree to deliver.


Do all webmasters charge exactly the same price?  Why not?  How is this different than a tip?

No, they don't. The difference is (presumably) based on the level of skill (like a surgeon) and the services required, NOT on whether or not how happy you are afterwards. Would you go to a surgeon who expected a tip to do a good job? I sure wouldn't.

Sorry, you've failed to convince me at all. Not even a little bit. In fact, you seemed to have reinforced my position by pointing out the flaws in the logic of "tipping".

Basically tipping says "I won't do a good job unless you pay me more than what the original bill is, or what you were told this service would cost you." That seems...like extortion, frankly.
   

[TehBorken]

 [p style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: italic;"]Is it really that easy to collect $600 in tips?
[/p][p style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"]No, not normally.
 [/p]
[p style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: italic;"] If it is, wouldn't everyone be doing it?
[/p][p style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"]No, not everyone wants to work in the food services industry. I certainly don't. Do you?
 [/p] [p style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"]
 [/p] [p style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: italic;"] Aren't the waitresses better looking and provide better service than IHOP?  Even if you believe the service is not that different, you'll agree that it's much harder to get a job as a waitress at a fancy restaurant than the local IHOP, so they should be rewarded on that level.[/p][p style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"]Why shouldn't the "reward" come from the employer, since it's their service that's the basis on which they're getting hired, as you stated? Why should the customers "reward" them?
 [/p]
 [p style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: italic;"][/p][p style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: italic;"]People also complain about about sports stars making millions versus minor leaguers.  Who's stopping the minor leaguers from making the big league team?  Nobody![/p]Not true. They'd all love to hit the major leagues but there are only so many slots available. They'd all love to make the big bucks, just like most waiters would prefer to be bank presidents. What's stopping the waiters from becoming bank presidents? Nobody!

 

[Queer Eye]

It appears that we'll have to agree to disagree on this subject.  Here's a penny for your thoughts (keep the change).    

[P.C.]

I'll have to weigh in on the agree to disagree front too QE.

  TB....you had some excellent points. (which is easy for me to say, because they reflected my sentiments to a tee)  

  *About the $600 .....it isn't common for sure.....but it's not rare.  And it's definitely not what one could expect at IHOP or Smittys.