Do you believe in tipping?

[P.C.]

 I agree with most of that QE.  But there are countries where there is no tipping.  Australia, Cuba.....etc.  Service there is bar none.  I serve the public in my job, sometimes up to 300 people a day.  If tipping is given for good service, why isn't it given for good service in all industries.  (don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that I SHOULD be tipped)...just makes me curious why this one industry requires this.  
 
Would you tip the gal that brought you 6 pairs of jeans to the change room and looked for a nice sweater to go with them at the Bay?  Why not?  I don't get it.  Do you tip the teller at the bank because she was pleasant and efficient?  Why not?  What about the gal who carefully rang your groceries through and bagged them carefully.  Why not?  What about your real estate agent who showed you over 20 houses before you made a decision.  Why not?
 
Here's a classic.  The beer and wine store where I live, has a tip jar at the counter where you check out.  What the H is that all about?  But if you walk up to the counter and say....I'll have a bottle of Glennfidich a case of Sleemans and a bottle of Tanqueray....they'll point to the aisles where it is.  Where does a tip come in for this kind of thing.  It's out of control I tell ya.
 
I guess I just don't understand how this got to where it is.

[Marik]

 Yes, I tip, even though I don't really like the idea.
I pretty much look for what everyone else mentioned before, (service with a smile, food is hot, etc.) but also for the server to NOT keep asking me "How is your food today?" 2 times, fine... but I'll ask them to stop coming around to my table and asking me questions after that. And if they do keep coming around = less tip. Let me eat in peace!!!
   

[P.C.]

I just don't know what tipping tells us anymore.

  You get these guys that have more money than God, and they'll tip huge regardless of what they're eating, how long it takes to be served, bad attitude waitresses....it doesn't matter.  You tip because it's expected behaviour.  So what does it mean?

  So some poor couple that scrimps and saves to have a night out once every 4 months and tips modestly is all of a sudden some kind of low-life that should be treated like crap?

  If tipping MUST be an expected practise, it should at the very least get back to tipping for [FONT size=4]exceptional service[/FONT]. (the GOOD service part should be covered by their wages)    

[Queer Eye]

  [table style="table-layout: fixed;" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="100%"] [tbody] [tr] [td style="" rowspan="2" valign="top" width="16%"][a title="View the profile of P.C." href="vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=156db9311653b0d3af4e23fa0a0fca84&action=profile;u=8"][font color="#000000"]P.C.[/font][/a]   [div class="smalltext"]Administrator
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[/a][/td] [td align="left" valign="center"][a href="vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=156db9311653b0d3af4e23fa0a0fca84&topic=4125.msg59828#msg59828"][font color="#000000"]Re: Do you believe in tipping?[/font][/a]   [div class="smalltext"]« Reply #30 on: Feb 19 07 »[/div][/td] [td style="" align="right" valign="bottom" height="20" nowrap="nowrap"][a onclick="if (!currentSwap) doQuote(59828); else window.location.XXXX = this.href; return false;" href="vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=156db9311653b0d3af4e23fa0a0fca84&action=post;quote=59828;topic=4125.30;num_replies=32;sesc=f78023be61c8f60f40dd0329a38b6b7c"][font color="#565656"]Reply with quote[/font][/a] [/td][/tr][/tbody][/table] [hr class="hrcolor" size="1" width="100%"]    [div style="width: 100%;"] [div]I agree with most of that QE.  But there are countries where there is no tipping.  Australia, Cuba.....etc.  Service there is bar none.  I serve the public in my job, sometimes up to 300 people a day.  If tipping is given for good service, why isn't it given for good service in all industries.  (don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that I SHOULD be tipped)...just makes me curious why this one industry requires this.  
 
Would you tip the gal that brought you 6 pairs of jeans to the change room and looked for a nice sweater to go with them at the Bay?  Why not?  I don't get it.  Do you tip the teller at the bank because she was pleasant and efficient?  Why not?  What about the gal who carefully rang your groceries through and bagged them carefully.  Why not?  What about your real estate agent who showed you over 20 houses before you made a decision.  Why not?
 
Here's a classic.  The beer and wine store where I live, has a tip jar at the counter where you check out.  What the H is that all about?  But if you walk up to the counter and say....I'll have a bottle of Glennfidich a case of Sleemans and a bottle of Tanqueray....they'll point to the aisles where it is.  Where does a tip come in for this kind of thing.  It's out of control I tell ya.
 
I guess I just don't understand how this got to where it is.[/div][/div][/td][/tr][/tbody][/table]
Wouldn't you consider sales commission a tip of some sorts?  I don't think anyone at the Bay has ever gone out of their way to help me, but at finer establishments, they trip over themselves to help you out, don't they?  I don't tip the bank teller or cashier because there is no difference in the quality of the service between employees.  The only way they could improve it is if they have hot chicks pretending to flirt with you - like a restaurant!  In addition, at restaurants you can get seated better, free samples, send back food, faster service etc.  How would tipping someone at McDonald's improve your experience?  The speed and quality of the food are the same, you carry your own food and dispose of the tray yourself.  How can you "stiff" a McDonald's employee?  Hence, no tip.  The tip is optional at your beer and wine store example, and I'm sure the vast majority don't tip because pointing to an aisle doesn't really involve any quality difference between different employees (as long as they're both accurate).  In countries where there is no tip, don't they charge more for food or thoughtfully include the gratuity in the check?  If the tip is already included in the check, what incentive does the server have to go out of their way?  With real estate commission, don't you think a realtor will give priority to the big spenders?  Since you mentioned other countries, there is rampant corruption in many places where nothing gets done without a bribe, which is basically the same thing as a tip.  If you want your passport processed faster, don't you have to pay an extra "administrative fee?"  Would you care to join the month(s) long wait for an MRI in Canada or would you rather just pay for it the same day across the border?  Call it what you want, but we all "tip" everyday whenever we want something done better.
 
The bottom line is that if you want a perceptible difference in quality, you're going to have to pay for it.  It's as simple as that.
 
I tip at least 20% and even more wherever I'm a regular.
 

[P.C.]

 Wouldn't you consider sales commission a tip of some sorts?

  No....I consider that the cost of doing business.

  I don't think anyone at the Bay has ever gone out of their way to help me, but at finer establishments, they trip over themselves to help you out, don't they?  I don't tip the bank teller or cashier because there is no difference in the quality of the service between employees.

  True....but do you tip differently if you've gotten good service as opposed to exceptional service....mediocre service...bordering on poor service?  Does the 'difference in the quality of the service between waitresses' make a difference in whether you will leave a tip.   Not likely, because it is expected that we do otherwise.  I think a standard percentage is the norm.....regardless.

   The only way they could improve it is if they have hot chicks pretending to flirt with you - like a restaurant!  In addition, at restaurants you can get seated better, free samples, send back food, faster service etc.  How would tipping someone at McDonald's improve your experience?  The speed and quality of the food are the same, you carry your own food and dispose of the tray yourself.  How can you "stiff" a McDonald's employee?

  How could I get seated better, faster service, better service, more pleasant service etc. if they don't even KNOW at this point if they are going to get tipped 10 bucks or 100 bucks  This is the part that mystifies me.

    If the tip is already included in the check, what incentive does the server have to go out of their way?  

  A pay cheque ?  Being gainfully employed ?

   Since you mentioned other countries, there is rampant corruption in many places where nothing gets done without [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffbf"]a bribe, which is basically the same thing as a tip. [/FONT]

  Well said.  I think you just nailed it.  It's a form of blackmail imposed on the public to compensate for their employers cheapness.  Are you suggesting that tipping is a form of corruption?

  If you want your passport processed faster, don't you have to pay an extra "administrative fee?"  Would you care to join the month(s) long wait for an MRI in Canada or would you rather just pay for it the same day across the border?  Call it what you want, but we all "tip" everyday whenever we want something done better.

  Since a tip is usually given AFTER the service.......how does the person know how much service to dole out?

  The bottom line is that if you want a perceptible difference in quality, you're going to have to pay for it.  It's as simple as that.



I tip at least 20% and even more wherever I'm a regular.

  So do we......but I always feel resentful knowing that whatever I tip is EXPECTED....not a gratuity.  It's only appreciated if it's an exceptional amount.

   

[Queer Eye]

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[A href="vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=a8d54cd7fbdf53591ca989c118d82d3b&action=profile;u=8"][FONT color=#000000]View Profile[/FONT][/A] [/DIV][/TD] [TD vAlign=top width="85%" height="100%"] [TABLE width="100%" border=0] [TBODY] [TR] [TD vAlign=center align=left][A href="vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=a8d54cd7fbdf53591ca989c118d82d3b&topic=4125.msg59844#msg59844"][img alt="" src="vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/Themes/default/images/post/xx.gif" border=0][/A][/TD] [TD vAlign=center align=left][A href="vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=a8d54cd7fbdf53591ca989c118d82d3b&topic=4125.msg59844#msg59844"][FONT color=#565656]Re: Do you believe in tipping?[/FONT][/A]   [DIV class=smalltext]« Reply #34 on: Feb 19 07 »[/DIV][/TD] [TD style="FONT-SIZE: smaller" vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right height=20][A onclick="if (!currentSwap) doQuote(59844); else window.location.XXXX = this.href; return false;" href="vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=a8d54cd7fbdf53591ca989c118d82d3b&action=post;quote=59844;topic=4125.30;num_replies=34;sesc=ab1b12b1b417c05fdae0d7239db48df6"][FONT color=#000000]Reply with quote[/FONT][/A] [/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE] [HR class=hrcolor width="100%" SIZE=1]    [DIV style="OVERFLOW: auto; WIDTH: 100%"]  Wouldn't you consider sales commission a tip of some sorts?

  No....I consider that the cost of doing business.

  [FONT color=#00bfbf]Don't you think employees will be more productive if you put them on commission?  Aren't you thinking like a Communist?[/FONT]

  I don't think anyone at the Bay has ever gone out of their way to help me, but at finer establishments, they trip over themselves to help you out, don't they?  I don't tip the bank teller or cashier because there is no difference in the quality of the service between employees.

  True....but do you tip differently if you've gotten good service as opposed to exceptional service....mediocre service...bordering on poor service?  Does the 'difference in the quality of the service between waitresses' make a difference in whether you will leave a tip.   Not likely, because it is expected that we do otherwise.  I think a standard percentage is the norm.....regardless.

  [FONT color=#00bfbf]I think people definitely tip accordingly if they received exceptional service vs mediocre service etc.  Every restaurant has that one waitress that consistently gets the most tips for a reason.  Don't you think she's helping the employer by helping herself (as well as the customer)?  It's a win-win-win vs a lose-lose-lose situation.[/FONT]

[FONT color=#00bfbf][/FONT]

[FONT color=#00bfbf]You could theoretically buy a TV from Costco but most people would rather pay a bit more at an electronics store where the staff are more knowledgeable about the product.  You're paying more for the service, not so much the TV itself.  Toilet paper, on the other hand, is something virtually anyone would buy at Costco.[/FONT]

[FONT color=#00bfbf][/FONT]

[FONT color=#00bfbf]Nobody tips a bus driver because the routes and times are the same regardless of who's driving.  A cab driver, on the other hand, can take shortcuts, drive faster, make pleasant conversation etc.  If you're from out of town, he could recommend restaurants, the most popular nite club on Friday nights etc.[/FONT]

   The only way they could improve it is if they have hot chicks pretending to flirt with you - like a restaurant!  In addition, at restaurants you can get seated better, free samples, send back food, faster service etc.  How would tipping someone at McDonald's improve your experience?  The speed and quality of the food are the same, you carry your own food and dispose of the tray yourself.  How can you "stiff" a McDonald's employee?

  How could I get seated better, faster service, better service, more pleasant service etc. if they don't even KNOW at this point if they are going to get tipped 10 bucks or 100 bucks  This is the part that mystifies me.

  [FONT color=#00bfbf]I see your point but this can be answered by whether or not they recognize you (i.e. either you're a celebrity or a regular).[/FONT]

    If the tip is already included in the check, what incentive does the server have to go out of their way?  

  A pay cheque ?  Being gainfully employed ?

  [FONT color=#00bfbf]I'm sure you've heard all of the jokes about those who work for the government.[/FONT]

   Since you mentioned other countries, there is rampant corruption in many places where nothing gets done without [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffbf"]a bribe, which is basically the same thing as a tip. [/FONT]

  Well said.  I think you just nailed it.  It's a form of blackmail imposed on the public to compensate for their employers cheapness.

  [FONT color=#00bfbf]I don't see the "blackmail."  Who is forcing you to go to a restaurant to pay $2 for a glass of Diet Coke when you can just by a 2 Liter bottle for $1 at the supermarket?  The service is part of what you're paying for.  The employers are there to take your money, as you know.  Whether you leave a tip or just pay more for the food, you're going to lose your money one way or another.  It's more beneficial when there's an incentive, as you also know already.[/FONT]

  If you want your passport processed faster, don't you have to pay an extra "administrative fee?"  Would you care to join the month(s) long wait for an MRI in Canada or would you rather just pay for it the same day across the border?  Call it what you want, but we all "tip" everyday whenever we want something done better.

  Since a tip is usually given AFTER the service.......how does the person know how much service to dole out?

  [FONT color=#00bfbf]You're thinking way too deep.  Everyone knows you tip at least 15%, right?    [/FONT]

  The bottom line is that if you want a perceptible difference in quality, you're going to have to pay for it.  It's as simple as that.



I tip at least 20% and even more wherever I'm a regular.

  So do we......but I always feel resentful knowing that whatever I tip is EXPECTED....not a gratuity.  It's only appreciated if it's an exceptional amount.

  [FONT color=#00bfbf]This may go back to your job where you said you serve the public and yet you don't get a tip (in fairness, nor did you request one).  I'm guessing the reason for that is, again, there's not much of a difference whether you, Sally, or Joe is serving the customer.  If there was a noticeable difference, you'd be on commission like car salesman or even people in the finance industry, where in a good year, their bonus often trumps their salary - sometimes even several times fold.[/FONT][/DIV][/TD][/TR] [TR] [TD class=smalltext vAlign=bottom width="85%"] [TABLE style="TABLE-LAYOUT: fixed" width="100%" border=0] [TBODY] [TR] [TD class=smalltext align=left width="100%" colSpan=2] Wouldn't you consider sales commission a tip of some sorts?

  No....I consider that the cost of doing business.

   [/TD][/TR] [TR] [TD class=smalltext vAlign=bottom align=left][/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE][/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]  

[P.C.]

Believe it or not QE.....I actually agree with all your points.....and like I said....I have always tipped, and as long as it is customary....I always will.

  It's just that I've yet to hear a valid explantation as to why this industry is exclusive to such rigorous support of tipping regardless of how bad the service is.

  I have a friend who goes to the hairdressers religiously every 6 weeks.  She tips outrageously (because she too believes in all your points) and yet she comes home in tears at least 4 times out of 5.  She then goes to another hairdresser, where she pays for the service all over again....TIPS AGAIN and is STILL often unhappy.

     [FONT color=#00bfbf]This may go back to your job where you said you serve the public and yet you don't get a tip (in fairness, nor did you request one).  I'm guessing the reason for that is, again, there's not much of a difference whether you, Sally, or Joe is serving the customer.  If there was a noticeable difference, you'd be on commission like car salesman or even people in the finance industry, where in a good year, their bonus often trumps their salary - sometimes even several times fold.[/FONT]

[FONT color=#00bfbf][/FONT]

There is more often than not, not much of a difference whether Sally, Joe, Zoey or Jack serves me my food or drinks either.....but I'm still expected to tip.

  So in the restaurant end of the business where I work, I had a friend who waitressed there.  She used to take home more a month in tips than I made in wages.  (My wage was greater than hers).  I'd deal with 4 or 5  times more people in a day than she would.  Where's the logic in this.

[FONT color=#00bfbf][/FONT]

  I know I don't hold a popular opinion on the subject.....and yet it never ceases to amaze me how many people I know, who will defend the practise...... complain of their crappy experience and yet continue to defend it.  I've enjoyed your point of view though.

     

[Queer Eye]

 [TABLE style="TABLE-LAYOUT: fixed" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width="100%"] [TBODY] [TR] [TD style="OVERFLOW: hidden" vAlign=top width="16%" rowSpan=2][A title="View the profile of P.C." href="vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=529bf72d99107f82f095a47ce2d2f504&action=profile;u=8"][FONT color=#000000]P.C.[/FONT][/A]   [DIV class=smalltext]Administrator
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[/DIV]

[A href="vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=529bf72d99107f82f095a47ce2d2f504&action=profile;u=8"][FONT color=#000000]View Profile[/FONT][/A] [/DIV][/TD] [TD vAlign=top width="85%" height="100%"] [TABLE width="100%" border=0] [TBODY] [TR] [TD vAlign=center align=left][A href="vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=529bf72d99107f82f095a47ce2d2f504&topic=4125.msg59848#msg59848"] (note:  these emoticons are too big!).  The logic is that you're much easier to replace than she is and she probably attracts (pardon the pun) more repeat business than you do.[SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"]  [/SPAN]But good looks don't last forever, so her shelf life is much shorter than yours (should you both be inclined to keep working in that restaurant until you're let go).[/FONT]

  I know I don't hold a popular opinion on the subject.....and yet it never ceases to amaze me how many people I know, who will defend the practise...... complain of their crappy experience and yet continue to defend it.  I've enjoyed your point of view though.

  [FONT color=#ff7f00]Likewise!  Thanks for you two cents (again, pardon the pun)![/FONT][/DIV][/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]  

[P.C.]

One wee note.  I don't work in the restaurant....I work in another area of the business......and Ummmmm....QE....I'm not a guy. [img style="CURSOR: pointer" onclick=url(this.src); src="vny!://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/more/bigs/c018.gif" border=0]

[TehBorken]

 I have mixed feelings on tipping. I understand that may waiters and waitresses "make it or break it" on the money they get from tips, but on the other hand I've always wondered why someone should be tipped just for doing their job. I don't get tipped for what I do, nor do many oher people. You don't tip your doctor or plumber or mechanic, do you?

It just seems odd to me that you should be expected to tip someone for what they're already being paid to do. The implication is that if I don't tip (read: bribe) them, then I won't get good service. What is that supposed to teach me about the places where I spend my money, like restaurants? That they'll give me substandard service unless I pay them more? Would you accept this sort of thing from your doctor or attorney or grocery clerk?
 

[ripper]

The purpose of tipping is two fold. One is to supplement the waiter/ress income who make less than minimum wage. The other is of course a out and out bribe to ensure good service.

[TehBorken]

 ripper wrote:
The purpose of tipping is two fold. One is to supplement the waiter/ress income who make less than minimum wage. The other is of course a out and out bribe to ensure good service.

1) Why am I  responsible to ensure that they make enough money? Isn't that really something they're responsible for? What if I'm not making enough money, are you supposed to give me money to make sure I have enough? Why shouldn't I just raise the price of the service I offer to make sure I earn what I need?

2) Why should I pay more than the listed price to "ensure good service"?? What does that say about the business I'm already choosing to spend my money at?

 

[P.C.]

ripper, I don't think there is anyone out there making less than minimum wages.  It's illegal.  If they ARE making less than minimum wage, they have several options.  First....don't take the job....look elsewhere.  Take it up with the employer, and if all else fails, go to Labour Relations.  

  edit: But to look to the public to pick up the slack for their employers refusal to pay their worth is flat out wrong.              

[ripper]

I really can't answer your question. We have a pretty messed up system here. By that i mean some services get tipped while others don't. We tip taxi drivers, hair stylist, the valet, and yet we don't tip people who work in the fast food industry who work a million times harder. Go figure.  

[ripper]

P.C. wrote:
 ripper, I don't think there is anyone out there making less than minimum wages.  It's illegal.  If they ARE making less than minimum wage, they have several options.  First....don't take the job....look elsewhere.  Take it up with the employer, and if all else fails, go to Labour Relations.  

  edit: But to look to the public to pick up the slack for their employers refusal to pay their worth is flat out wrong.

P.C. i was told by a friend who works in the industry that they make less then minimum wage. Who knows, maybe he was pulling my leg so i'll give him bigger tips. Grrrrr. As far as the restaurants go, they have a pretty high overhead. If they were to pay their staff  union rates, who could afford to eat out but a select few. By keeping the prices reasonable, they allow us to basically tell the wait staff what their service is really worth.