Do you believe in tipping?

ripper · Feb 22 07 08:17

P.C. that $20 an hoyr was just hypothetical. It easily be $10 or $15 dollars an hour. The point once they get a flat rate with no possible extra, what is there in it for them to go above and beyond. Yes they still have a job to do. And they will do their job, but just the required minimum to not get fired. Like a refill for your coffee. Sure fifteen minutes later. Everything will slow right down.

TehBorken · Feb 22 07 08:24

ripper wrote:
P.C. that $20 an hoyr was just hypothetical. It easily be $10 or $15 dollars an hour. The point once they get a flat rate with no possible extra, what is there in it for them to go above and beyond.

Then why shouldn't this logic apply to every job?? Your doctor, your attorney, your mechanic....what incentive do they have to "go above and beyond"? Why are waiters and waitesses so different? What makes them special?

Yes they still have a job to do. And they will do their job, but just the required minimum to not get fired.

Then your doctor should be allowed to act this way, no? And you should be allowed to do the minimum in your job and everyone should be okay with that, right?

ripper · Feb 22 07 08:31

TehBorben, i've worked in all kind of jobs.From union shops to Offices. The fact is people are lazy and scammers by nature. I've met so many people who do just the required minimum to just not get fired. As for doctors, if they screw up i can sue them. You can't sue a waiter for screwing up.

P.C. · Feb 22 07 08:37

Yup, TehBorken.....that's what mysifies me too. What IS so special about this profession?

The point once they get a flat rate with no possible extra, what is there in it for them to go above and beyond. Yes they still have a job to do. And they will do their job, but just the required minimum to not get fired. Like a refill for your coffee. Sure fifteen minutes later. Everything will slow right down.

Sorry for taking your post so literally ripper. [img style="CURSOR: pointer" onclick=url(this.src); src="vny!://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/froehlich/c020.gif" border=0]

As far as only doing the required minimum as to not get fired, that's the [FONT size=4]easiest [/FONT]problem of all to fix.

Ultimate care of the clientele is simply a feature in the job description.

TehBorken · Feb 22 07 08:43

ripper wrote:
As for doctors, if they screw up i can sue them.

Not if they simply do the minimum they need to get by. And that's what we're talking about, not anyone screwing up.

You can't sue a waiter for screwing up.
Actually, you can sue anyone for anything, even a waiter. But why should you have to pay extra just to get decent service?

Again, should you have to tip your doctor just to get good service from him? Why not? What is it that gives waiters a special right to be "owed" a tip just for doing their job?

ripper · Feb 22 07 08:44

That's okay P.C. I enjoy a good debate. Keeps the brain sharp. And at my age, i need all the help i can get.

P.C. · Feb 22 07 08:49

When you think about it, it's really an unreliable guage for a restaurant owner. Tipping does nothing to inform restaurant owner how good their establishment is. Do they believe for a moment that if there are complaints, that this information is passed on by the very person who may have caused the problem.

People tip for all kinds of reasons....top of the list is that it's just not socially acceptable NOT to and fear of foreign objects in their meal. But we all know that a pretty girl (with various assets) is going to make better tips than a less endowed.....I mean plain girl. What information is a restaurant owner gleaning from this? Certainly nothing related to the quality or lack of quality of food they're serving.....OR how it's being served.

It's become so murky with people tipping 'JUST BECAUSE' that it no longer has any meaning.

ripper · Feb 22 07 08:50

Tehborken i never said there was anything special about waiting on tables. But the fact remains that they are lowest of the hourly paid while doctors and lawyers are some of the highest. Maybe it comes from my humble beginnings. I have a soft spot for the underdog. Go Leafs go.I mean most of the the people who wait are either students or single mothers.

P.C. · Feb 22 07 09:03

It may be one of the lowest paid jobs....but certainly not the lowest, (which makes sense as it requires minimal skill and minimal training). Let's face it, the toughest part of 'waiting' is dealing with nasty clientele. But that brings us back to the fact that this is only one job of thousands that has to deal with the public. Again.....I'm not suggesting for a minute that it's easy....that's why they call it WORK and that's why you get paid to do it.

I deal with the public, (a lot of public) and I can't imagine doing a mediocre job, just because there is no incentive in the form of tips from the public to do a better job. I do a good job partly for my own personal satisfaction, but largely because I believe it to be a common sense requirement being as someone is giving me money to do so. (not to mention the good ol Golden Rule) Is it not the most basic expectation of an employer that their employees treat their clientele with respect and cheerfulness ?

ripper · Feb 22 07 09:10

P.C. wrote:
It may be one of the lowest paid jobs....but certainly not the lowest, (which makes sense as it requires minimal skill and minimal training). Let's face it, the toughest part of 'waiting' is dealing with nasty clientele. But that brings us back to the fact that this is only one job of thousands that has to deal with the public. Again.....I'm not suggesting for a minute that it's easy....that's why they call it WORK and that's why you get paid to do it.

I deal with the public, (a lot of public) and I can't imagine doing a mediocre job, just because there is no incentive in the form of tips from the public. Is it not the most basic expectation of an employer that their employees treat their clientele with respect and cheerfulness ? [/DIV]
You are absolutely correct. Nothing worst then encountering a rude or incompetent employee. Arrrgh.

TehBorken · Feb 22 07 09:36

ripper wrote:
Tehborken i never said there was anything special about waiting on tables. But the fact remains that they are lowest of the hourly paid while doctors and lawyers are some of the highest.

Yes, but so what? Keep in mind, some of the doctors and lawyers started out waiting tables. But I have to aks- what's your point? That we should subsidize the lower-paid workers ourselves? Why should we do that? Why shouldn't their employer simply pay them a living wage instead of expecting it to come out of our pocket?

Put it this way: Do you tip a shoe salesman? Or a cashier? Or the counter clerk at McDonalds? They're poorly paid too, so why shouldn't we tip them? I mean really, this makes no sense when you look at it. It's just that we've been conditioned to tip waiters and waitresses.

Maybe it comes from my humble beginnings. I have a soft spot for the underdog. Go Leafs go.I mean most of the the people who wait are either students or single mothers.[/div] [div style="font-style: italic;"]
I have no problem with rooting for the underdog, but that's not what we're doing here and framing it that way is deceptive in my opinion. We're talking about having to essentially bribe people to do a decent job, a job that they are being paid to do already.

ripper · Feb 22 07 11:56

TehBorken wrote:

Put it this way: Do you tip a shoe salesman? Or a cashier? Or the counter clerk at McDonalds? They're poorly paid too, so why shouldn't we tip them? I mean really, this makes no sense when you look at it. It's just that we've been [SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic"]conditioned[/SPAN] to tip waiters and waitresses.

We don't tip shoe salesman because they are paid hourly and commision. Same for sales people and cashiers at department stores. Ever wonder why some of them are so pushy.As far as fast food goes, it sucks but what do you expect. If we were expected to tip at McDicks, their god awful food would be almost as expensive as normal restaurants. Who'd eat there. They'd go out of business.[BR style="FONT-STYLE: italic"]

TehBorken · Feb 22 07 12:14

ripper wrote:
If we were expected to tip at McDicks, their god awful food would be almost as expensive as normal restaurants.

So...why doesn't this logic apply to food servers iin restaurants where the food is awful? It's not the waiter's fault that the food is bad.

TehBorken · Feb 22 07 12:16

TehBorken wrote:
ripper wrote:
We don't tip shoe salesman because they are paid hourly and commision.

Some make commission, some don't. But what about cashiers? They don't make any commision. Why not tip them?

If we were expected to tip at McDicks, their god awful food would be almost as expensive as normal restaurants.

So why doesn't this logic apply to food servers iin restaurants where the food is awful? It's not the waiter's fault that the food is bad, right?

ripper · Feb 22 07 12:21

The fact remains that we live in a society that is mostly tip oriented. Mostly i say because some industries just don't get tipped. i can't figure it out. If anyone can please enlighten me. We tip the barber, the pizza man, the valet, movers and so on.