Bill C-484 opens the door to re-criminalizing abortion in Canada

[Sportsdude]

[a href="vny!://www.thestar.com/comment/columnists/article/416542"]vny!://www.thestar.com/comment/columnists/article/416542[/a]

all the tories need is a majority in the senate and in the house and abortion becomes illegal.

[a href="vny!://www.thetelegram.com/index.cfm?sid=125825&sc=87"]vny!://www.thetelegram.com/index.cfm?sid=125825&sc=87[/a]

[a href="vny!://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=eacf6bb9-bfea-4e1d-a75b-87c3fd4bd2ed"]vny!://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=eacf6bb9-bfea-4e1d-a75b-87c3fd4bd2ed[/a]


 

[Van]

Guess the Poop..er, I mean pope had some influence going to New York!?

  How come John Lennon was shot, but nobody will shoot the pope (name not capitalized on purpose).

[Sportsdude]

ratzinger has bigger issues to worry about I think.
although you know rule number 1 in catholic land, we need butts in the seats to pay out our abusing priests!
rather cynical view of course, but makes sense. Ratzinger said at one point women having their period was murder...
 

[Van]

I would love to pay abusing priests, with a shotgun blast to their private parts.

[Michel]

   
 

[Van]

I am not 100% sure I support abortion, or not. I need more heartfelt thoughts on that.

But, just in general, does the catholic church has anything to do with Jesus?  

[purelife]

Van wrote:
I would love to pay abusing priests, with a shotgun blast to their private parts. Need a sidekick?
 

[purelife]

I just read this from the link:

 The bill, according to its wording, would make "it an offence to injure, cause the death of or attempt to cause [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff40"]the death of a child [/FONT]before or during its birth while committing or attempting to commit an offence against the mother."

 [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff00"]The bill also proposes a minimum prison term of 10 years.[/FONT]

 OMFG.  10 years min in jail for abortion!  Grrr, I would really love to re-write my once submitted Uni essay on why abortion needs to remain legal.

 A child?  It's just a bunch of cells and blood in the beginning of first trimester.  I can perhaps understand the "child" word if the Mother is in the 2nd or 3rd trimester, which usually calls for a more complicated abortion procedure. But I couldn't see it as a "child."

[Sportsdude]

 that is dealing with the law, but you could interpret and rightly so the definition of a "child" in the future battle of abortion rights. This bill gives legal rights basically, they have done this down in the states of course. The next step is banning 3rd and 4th term abortions because of these criminal law add on like bill C-484. Then you start to go after the first term on basis of these laws as well.  

[purelife]

Sportsdude wrote:
The next step is banning 3rd [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff40"]and 4th term abortions.[/FONT][FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff40"] [/FONT]   There's a 4th term?  I thought there were only three trimesters/terms... oh gawd..I'm so out of it.    

[Sportsdude]

 oops been slipping lately, stupid sociology final prep. for the final in 2hrs.
of course only three
in the states we demonize those as "partial birth abortions" which have been federally banned on the basis of cruelty because of these simple criminal laws like c-484 which give the unborn personhood status. Basically this bill gives the anti-abortion folks the open door to go to the Supreme Court and say "hey this should be illegal", Supreme Court then looks at the law and since they are a bunch of lawyers, they look at the legality of the claim etc. Then of course Harper can appoint judges that have anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage views, which then politicizes the bench like the U.S. Supreme Court...

Give them enough time and see how far back the clock will go. You will be amazed at how quickly your rights can be taken away at a stroke of a pen.

Don't put your trust in Liberals on this, they haven't had a leader in years with balls and Dion didn't even show up to vote on this on the first reading. This will pass and the Liberals will forget, the party is too big, it spans too many political views 12 Liberals voted for this on the first reading for example. So they (the party) don't do anything productive (as in doing something the people want) in order to not offend one side of the party or the other. Rather comical/sad.

   

[purelife]

You lost me at demonize.  Uh, what are you trying to say?  

[Sportsdude]

okay,
3rd tri abortions have been banned in the United States because anti-abortion groups er 'pro-life' (which is rather hysterical, the unborn are more important to them then the born, same goes for Canadian far right as well I'm almost certain) have used these laws that give an unborn fetus person status to use to their favour.

If a fetus is considered a 'child' after the 1st tri, then any harm done to the child after the 1st could be considered ethically wrong or murder. That's their (anti) view point and technically this is what the aim of these groups are. They're not going to get an all out ban (although parliamentary system it would be easier to do so) so they chip away at loop holes.

So in this case, anti-abortion folks can go to court challenging 'late term', 'partial birth', 3rd term abortions as cruel and they also well get to change the meanings around like saying 'partial birth' instead of third term.

i hope i didn't lose you...
Just explaining what goes on in the states, will eventually happen here in Canada if people are not more self aware of who they elect to parliament etc.


 

[Sportsdude]

  Van wrote:
I am not 100% sure I support abortion, or not. I need more heartfelt thoughts on that.[hr style="width: 100%; height: 2px;"]

without going into personal stories because abortion is a personal issue based on choice, something the  government has no right in medeling in. Take the religious views of a religion with its own political gains in this (cynical view, more birth control methods and abortion right become available = nobody in the pews to give these church body/political pressure bodies money. Its good business sense for the religions to be against freedom...) anyway take out that view and its this:

do you believe that women should have total control of their own bodies and reproductive rights? Take religion out of the issue and its a matter of rights. Should governments be able to decide what and what you can't do as a person, is that a free society?

or another question is do you want the government putting up barriers into your personal affairs? Do you want the government to say "Van, I'm sorry you don't control your own body, we do?"


------
catholic church has nothing to do with Jesus, roman catholicism was started by a roman emperor who decided he wanted to embrace this 'christianity' with roman paganism. Hence you go to a catholic church and you see idols, saints, etc. That's not Jesus related. Catholics believe they are the 'one true church' directly started by Peter and nobody else has the same divine path to God.

Its a religion in itself really, you pray to the pope so he can pray to Jesus. You pray to idols and saints to give you strength. Sound too Roman mythological? It's because it is... but shh don't tell a catholic this, they'll get mad and offended and say you are anti-catholic omg and you'll be on tv being screamed at by Bill Donahue and the Catholic League. Jesus would laugh at the head of the church wearing all this gold crowns and stuff, that's what Jesus fought against in the jewish hierarchy.

then to go even futher the old testament is about an up down type God. God commands you to do this, obey me now weak and petty person or you will die etc. New Testament is about all inclusive, happy, lets gather around in a circle and talk God, we are in this together view of God in Jesus. This view of God has compassion for people and is caring. While in the old testament, God is a cranky old man who sees you as nothing and you are just a pawn to him. Basically in the old testament if you don't follow along you will be killed, off with your head.

Protestantism is generally viewed as the 'lets hold hands in a circle' (the mainstream and liberal churches are) while the orthodox, catholic and hardline protestant churches believe in the old testament way of things and will condemn you to hell, excommunicate you etc. They also believe that THEY know what's best for you and you better follow along young man or you'll spend the rest of your life in eternal damnation sort of thing (old testament).



   

[P.C.]

catholic church has nothing to do with Jesus, roman catholicism was started by a roman emperor who decided he wanted to embrace this 'christianity' with roman paganism. Hence you go to a catholic church and you see idols, saints, etc. That's not Jesus related. Catholics believe they are the 'one true church' directly started by Peter and nobody else has the same divine path to God.

Its a religion in itself really, you pray to the pope so he can pray to Jesus. You pray to idols and saints to give you strength. Sound too Roman mythological? It's because it is... but shh don't tell a catholic this, they'll get mad and offended and say you are anti-catholic omg and you'll be on tv being screamed at by Bill Donahue and the Catholic League. Jesus would laugh at the head of the church wearing all this gold crowns and stuff, that's what Jesus fought against in the jewish hierarchy.

  Where DO you get this stuff.  

  "shhh...don't tell a catholic this, they'll get mad and offended and say you are anti-catholic omg...."

  That's quite silly.  I would think the only thing they might find offensive is your speaking of something in a manner that suggests you know what you're talking about.  I don't know which Catholic church you go to, but you must have had both your eyes and ears closed.  (so did I for the most part....but I did pick up a couple comments about Jesus once or twice over the 20 years that I attended church)