Women loses frozen embryos fight

P.C. · Mar 10 06 08:58

Well perhaps someone will set a precedent. Surely there is a lawyer out there that can argue that line and win. When the choice to reproduce 'voluntarily' is removed......it's rape.......regardless of gender. With all the problems that will come with new technology in this area, some NEW laws will have to be put in place.

TehBorken · Mar 10 06 09:06

P.C. wrote:
Well perhaps someone will set a precedent.

Maybe someday, but don't hold your breath. I personally doubt it will ever happen.

Surely there is a lawyer out there that can argue that line and win.

Yes, in theory. It's been tried repeatedly and the courts have discounted it each and every time. There was a female baby-sitter that raped the little boy she was supposed to be watching. She got pregnant. The court awarded her child support from the kid she raped. With bias like that, I doubt men will ever see any real movement in the idea of male reproductive rights.

When the choice to reproduce 'voluntarily' is removed......it's rape.......regardless of gender.

Unless you're a guy.

P.C. · Mar 10 06 09:10

That's insanely ridiculous. [img style="CURSOR: pointer" onclick=url(this.src); src="http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/more/bigs/c003.gif" border=0]

tenkani · Mar 10 06 11:42

It's not an urban myth. Here's an article from the Canadian Children's Rights Council on a court case that stemmed from the initial child support dispute.

The woman is a doctor, so presumably she knew how to properly store the sperm. Dry ice? Who knows...

[A href="http://www.canadiancrc.com/articles/AP_Man_can_sue_sperm_theft_distress_24FEB05.htm"]http://www.canadiancrc.com/articles/AP_Man_can_sue_sperm_theft_distress_24FEB05.htm[/A] [A href="http://funreports.com/2005/03/04/58528.html"]http://funreports.com/2005/03/04/58528.html[/A]

My favorite part...[/DIV] [/DIV]But the judges agreed with the lower court's decision to dismiss fraud and theft claims against Irons.

They agreed with Irons' lawyers that she didn't steal the sperm. [/DIV] [/DIV]She asserts that when plaintiff 'delivered' his sperm, it was a gift -- an absolute and irrevocable transfer of title to property from a donor to a donee," the decision said. "There was no agreement that the original deposit would be returned upon request."

Sportsdude · Mar 10 06 11:48

"Phillips alleges that he and Irons, who practices internal medicine, never had intercourse during their four-month affair, although they did have oral sex three times."
[/DIV] [/DIV]He probly was so drunk he passed out during sex.

tenkani · Mar 10 06 11:56

Well, in the articles I've read on the matter, it doesn't sound like Irons (the woman) has denied using the sperm from oral sex to create a baby. Her lawyer's statement simply states that the sperm was a gift.

Here's another article that I found pretty interesting...[/DIV][A href="http://www.glennsacks.com/sperm_theft_ruling.htm"]http://www.glennsacks.com/sperm_theft_ruling.htm[/A] [SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]Courts have ruled that boys who were statutorily raped by older women must pay child support. Courts have ruled that when a woman has taken the semen from a condom a man used for sex with a different woman and has inserted it in herself, the man must still pay child support. Courts have ruled that when a woman has concealed her pregnancy (denying the man the right to be a father) and then sued for child support a decade later, the man must still pay child support. Courts have ruled that when a woman has deceived her husband into believing that her baby is his child, he must still pay child support. Few if any men are relieved of child support obligations due to the circumstances of the pregnancy, no matter how bizarre or unjust.[/SPAN]

TehBorken · Mar 10 06 12:13

tenkani wrote:
Well, in the articles I've read on the matter, it doesn't sound like Irons (the woman) has denied using the sperm from oral sex to create a baby. Her lawyer's statement simply states that the sperm was a gift.

That's exactly what he argued, and because of that she was free to do with it whatever she wanted. Amazing.

Glenn Sacks has some very interesting stuff on his site. I've spoken with him on a couple of occasions.

TehBorken · Mar 10 06 12:17

P.C. wrote:
That's insanely ridiculous. [img style="cursor: pointer;" onclick="url(this.src);" src="http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/more/bigs/c003.gif[/img]

Welcome to my world.

No, I'm not a victim of anything like this, but in connection with my parenting advocacy group I've worked with at dozens of men in the last few years who have been.

tenkani · Mar 10 06 12:20

I honestly had no idea things were this bad. The idea that someone can steal one of my used condoms to impregnate themselves and then demand child support is mind boggling.

I don't necessarily agree that it's exactly the same as rape (no penetration), but it's certainly a HUGE violation of person.

I'm sure the folks who support these laws consider themselves to be fighting for the rights of the children. Their perspective is likely that regardless of the actions of the parents, the child should not suffer. I understand the sentiment, but the potential for abuse is obviously too great.

Glenn seems like a cool dude from what I've read.

TehBorken · Mar 10 06 12:36

tenkani wrote:
I honestly had no idea things were this bad. The idea that someone can steal one of my used condoms to impregnate themselves and then demand child support is mind boggling.

Most people will refuse to believe that this is the case, or that it ever happens at all. They simply won't believe you, and if you show them proof they'll respond by saying that it's a "one in a million case". It's a lot more common than most people are willing to believe. All you have to do is go sit in Family Court for one week and you'll see that, in fact, it happens almost every day.

Sportsdude · Mar 10 06 12:55

Simple answer to the dilema. Never bed a chick that says 'her clock is ticking'

tenkani · Mar 10 06 01:15

Simpler answer; only have sex with other men. Although ass pregnancy does occur (Carrot Top being the most recognizable product of such a freak occurance), it is nearly unheard of.

If the thought of hair man ass doesn't do it for you, just ask him to wear lingerie. Works for me!!

Sportsdude · Mar 10 06 01:18

sorry tenkani I don't swing that way.

tenkani · Mar 10 06 01:23

I forgive you.[/DIV]Maybe you'll reconsider after somebody hijacks your sperm and makes a sportsdude jr

P.C. · Mar 10 06 01:40

I don't necessarily agree that it's exactly the same as rape (no penetration), but it's certainly a HUGE violation of person.[/DIV] [/DIV]I'm thinking more in terms of psycological and emotional impact and more specifically a woman becoming pregnant as a result of rape. I think the comparison is very real.

Both are faced with an unwanted pregnancy as a result of actions that were against their will. Both have had their choice to not procreate deliberately taken from them. No decision of their own was made to become a parent.