So... Whats for lunch?

[purelife]

I know what you mean, PC.  I've seen products/labels with over 5 different languages and trying to find English took a long time especially when the words were alternating or something.

[Sportsdude]

I think thats cool  

[P.C.]

I think it's a lot of things.....cool is definitely not one of them

[Sportsdude]

hmmm I pride in bi-lingual things lol  

[tenkani]

 SD, I said I have no problem with bi-lingualism. My beef is with people who speak only one language and it happens to not be the official language of the nation they are supposedly eager to become a part of. The people who don't bother. The people who have lived here for a decade and still can't express simple concepts through English not because they are stupid, but because they don't see it as all that important.

Adding a language to your skill-base because it will help you to prosper in a new country has nothing to do with losing your own culture. Some people argue that new immigrants should toss their native culture in the garbage bin to speed their assimilation. I don't agree with that. But you don't lose your own culture because you learn to speak a 2nd language. P.C. is right, I think our immigration standards are a little lax here as well, but then of course we are flooded with illegal immigrants here so the standards are moot.
   

[Sportsdude]

Well my grandma didn't learn english until the 1960's and she was born here.  Heck my grandpa knew english before my grandma.  Uncle had to take ESL classes in school.

So maybe the new immigrants are not comfortable speaking english.  I know I'm not comfortable speaking spanish or french or any other language.

So if I was in their situation I'd bring along somebody who speaks english.  But if its been 10 years or so then you've got to speak it.  Don't pull a Sammy Sosa infront of Congress.  

[P.C.]

SD, would you not feel it necessary for yourself, if you decided to live in France....to learn to speak French?  Aside from being annoying to others, I would feel so detached from my new world.  Taking along someone to get me by isn't the answer.  And the responsibilty to learn the language should fall on my shoulders.....not the taxpayers in France.

  You prepare yourself in so many ways to adjust to a different climate perhaps....different dress, different available food......why wouldn't one think it's as important to prepare yourself to be able to communicate.

[tenkani]

 You know, honestly, if an immigrant decides to come here and is independantly wealthy and decides to live locked up in their apartment for the rest of their life, well that's sad but I guess it's their choice.

If, on the other hand, they are going to join the workforce, then I expect them to learn English ASAP even if they feel uncomfortable with it. Like people have already said, if I moved to Spain I would feel obligated to speak Spanish and would in no way cop an attitude and try to pressure the Spanish to learn English for my benefit. Communication is VITAL for creating communities, and if you truly want to only hang out with folks from your native country, speak your native language, read newspapers from back home and whatnot then please leave your spot for someone who feels differently.

We can only smash the distrust of the other through communication and the mixing of cultures (and blood). Sticking to your own only leads to fear and resentment.
   

[Russ]

Afternoon.

  Not feeling like spending half a day typing out my feelings on this.. lol.

  Take care all, im off being busy again.    

[tenkani]

Hello and goodbye!  

[Sportsdude]

 Did anyone understand what I said?

I said immigrants should earn english.  Speak the mother tongue at home or around the family when out in public.

When I said speaking your language at work I was thinking in more of the fast food restuarant business.  If you speak broken english and you are the cook and everyone else speaks your language as well you'd get things done faster in spanish.

I mean go to any hotel room.  There's always two hispanic girls doing the hotel work.  They speak english when they are talking to the customers in the hotel rooms but with each other its spanish.

   

[P.C.]

Here here !  

  Succinctly put tenkani.[img style="CURSOR: pointer" onclick=url(this.src); src="vny!://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/more/bigs/a056.GIF" border=0]  

[tenkani]

 Well, talking about how your grandmother didn't learn English until the 60's and how immigrants should bring English speakers with them and how they are uncomfortable speaking English and whatnot all give the impression that you are minimizing the importance of learning English quickly (or before you immigrate). You have never come right out with it, but the tone of most of your posts seems to point in that direction. If that wasn't your intent then I accept that.  

[P.C.]

I mean go to any hotel room.  There's always two hispanic girls doing the hotel work.  They speak english when they are talking to the customers in the hotel rooms but with each other its spanish.

  Well, now this is an area that I'm less comfortable with, but I'll go there anyway.  Chances are these gals will be doomed to a lifetime of hotel work (not that there's anything wrong with that)  because they aren't developing the ability to do something more because of their comfort zone of speaking their own language.   They're setting up some pretty tight barriers for themselves by not learning the language.  

[tenkani]

 I've tried talking to a couple of hispanic maids in my area.
Like the girl in the cafeteria, they did NOT speak any English.
Not even enough to communicate very simple concepts, which is the problem.
Around here, you may end up having to hunt down the manager of an establishment to get any sort of basic question answered because sometimes the ENTIRE STAFF is made up of immigrants with no English skills whatsoever. The owners hire the cheapest labor they can find, and that is usually undocumented aliens. Again, I can't blame the illegals because I'd do the same thing in their place, but the system is broken.