Am I using Canada as a form of 'escapism'?

[sam sullivan]

Sportsdude wrote:
 I don't think its about politics, for me.  If it was this urge to move would have left along time ago.  And yes I've looked at other countries I like Europe for example.  When I finally get to college I want to go study overseas in Norway.  I've got this disease (as I call it) to want to be an immigrant for some reason (Its has got to do with what my grandparents went through I believe).  I've become complacent down here and spoiled. (Even though I'm  from a middle class family that barely survives).  It has some to do with politics but as I said that would have worn off a long time ago.

The only time in my life that I was ever doing good in life was when I was being made fun of.  And I see what your talking about but then I don't see it.  And when I don't see what you're talking about is when I look at the last two gov. generals.  One was from Haiti and the other from Hong Kong.  They were not born in Canada they came to it and made it there own.  This is something you cannot do in america.  Which is why you don't see immigrants getting into politics here.  Its always there kids american born that do go into it if they want to.  This whole American Dream crap that stuffed down our throats in school is a joke when an immigrant can't access the 'americans born only' club.

  I like open spaces and the vastness of Canada.  I need a place I can get 'lost' in. (not literally).  I've taken life as one big giant test so to speak.  That might not be the best thing for me mentally but its how I run my life.

  lol open space? have u been to vancouver? tried to make a left turn on kingsway?
 

[Baked Banana]

Dissident wrote:
Sportsdude wrote:
 I wouldn't have to worry about the nationality thing because A) I'll probly burn my american citzenship which means B) I probly won't be dual.

And it wouldn't bother me because I've been called anti-american down here so do in rome as the romans do...[/DIV][/DIV]

Forgive me if I address you in a more "American" manner and if I'm perfectly blunt.  This, after all, is an American-based forum . . .

Dude, you just don't get it.  You could go around here with a big sign saying, "I Hate George Bush and the USA" on a maple leaf background or one of those silly "I am Canadian" beer shirts and people will still take the opportunity to dump on you because you were BORN American.  

Your sentiments and your "paper status" are immaterial.  As in the US, there are a lot of ignorant jerks here who love to find a target for their frustrations—and there is no political incorrectness in harrassing and discriminating against Americans.  These people could give a rat's ass how you feel about the US, whether you hold Canadian citizenship or how much you love Canada.  Yahoos like this blame us for everything from the lack of jobs in their field to astronomical housing costs to street crime to why it hasn't stopped raining in three weeks.

It doesn't matter if you don't customarily mention where you're from:  once they find out, some of these bastards will make it their business to let everyone in your "shared milieu"—be it your neighbourhood, workplace or whatever—know, so that even before anyone has had a chance to get to know you and make up their mind about you, one of the first things you will hear upon meeting them is, "oh, you must be the American".  From then on, you're always the outsider—and you'll hear about it whenever the US does something that people don't like, whether you are in agreement or not.

Believe me, I tried to slip in under the radar and just make a life for myself here.  I was stupid enough to think it was possible.  Before I even moved here I had people (usually women, so I assume it wasn't a pickup line) come up to me in the street or in shops and ask me if I had gone to high school with them, I looked familiar, was I from (White Rock, Port Alberni, New West, Ontario, wherever), so I figured that at least I didn't [SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic"]visually[/SPAN] stick out (plus there was the very real possibility that they may have been referring to a distant relation).  Even now, as long as I'm in an anonymous situation I stand a chance, but once they find out I'm American it's a crap shoot.  

So if you're asking if you're using Canada as a form of escapism, I have to answer:  yes, you are.  As I did.

If you don't act on the dream of escaping the US and reinventing yourself here amongst people who are "just like you", Canada will always be the shining city on the hill.  If that's what you want, great.  Just bear in mind that your fantasy bears about as much resemblance to reality as teenaged dreams of nailing your favourite pinup girl.

As I said, SD—not to be rude, just honest.
 
   Hate to say it Dissadent. This isn't a "Canadian" thing. There are not too many countries, territories, or anywhere in the world an American could move to, or even visit where they wouldn't be anti-American sediment. The USA has done it to themselves. Sorry, this is planet earth. There are some great American people, too bad it has to be this way. You can thank the American's thirst for oil control for that.

[Baked Banana]

 

lol open space? have u been to vancouver? tried to make a left turn on kingsway?[/DIV]
 
 yeah, the cities are bad. Have you been outside of Vancouver? Vancouver is a small little speck of Canada. There is more open space than most of Eaurope, with the population of one mega city spread through it all.

[P.C.]

I guess I just don't see where this 'anti-Americanism' is coming from.  I've yet to come across ANYONE, (in my circle of friends anyway) who is anti-American.  Aside from the crap on DV....I'm more likely to believe that it comes from people who don't like ANYTHING.  

  When someone is sorting through the reasons they may be experiencing difficulties, I think easier to swallow, to believe those difficulties stem from ones nationality rather than look at possiblities that the problem may be within ones' self.  Naive ?  Maybe......but for the average person, that's usually the last place we look.  I know that's a simplistic way of looking at things, but it holds true for the most part.....be it relationships with your own partner, friends, family co-workers etc.

  I think if we spent as much time 'fixing' ourselves as we did trying to fix everyone else, it would at the very least be an overall improvement.  

[Some Chick]

I agree with PC.  I don't often hear anything anti-American to individuals.  Perhaps because in my line of work I work with Americans all day long and wouldn't tolerate it, but even people that don't know that of me never say anything negative.

  On the flip side, there certainly are Canadians that shake their heads at some of the policies/propaganda of the American government and the fact that they were ever voted in in the first place, but that is about as far as I ever see it go.    

[kitten]

I would have to agree.  I've never come across any anti-American sentiment, at least not against individuals.  The government is another story, but as individual citizens I've always seen them accepted.

[Gopher]

Yes, that's pretty much it, anti-Americanism is usually directed at the nation, not its component parts.

[Dissident]

  P.C. wrote:
When someone is sorting through the reasons they may be experiencing difficulties, I think easier to swallow, to believe those difficulties stem from ones nationality rather than look at possiblities that the problem may be within ones' self.  


I see where you're going there, but believe me I've already gone through a couple of years of blaming and trying to "fix" myself.  I've tied myself up in knots trying to deal with this whole business—so I didn't come to my conclusions in the kind of facile, irresponsible manner you seem to suggest.

It was having a job where I was dealing with a lot of college students a few years back where I started running into Americans who were having a lot of the same problems I was.  These were mostly young, easygoing kids who were from all over the US and from all different types of backgrounds.  The complaints I used to hear from them sounded so much like the things I had kept to myself for so long it was uncanny.

Though I knew other foreign students who had some simliar difficulties, there seemed to be things that the American students had problems with that other foreign students never encountered.  I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that we pretty much look and sound like Canadians, so they don't hold back about their true feelings if they don't know where we're from right away.

After all, college students are worried about finding jobs after school, and I met a lot of Canadian kids who blame a lot of their job insecurity on US "encroachment" into the Canadian economy.  Similarly, living in what I have to designate without prejudice is a predominantly "working class" neighbourhood I've known a number of people who have been involved in strikes and union actions over the years, and many of them like to hold trade issues with the US responsible for their difficulties.

My brother lived in Ontario for a few years in the early 90s, and he relates similar experiences—though not as frequent and intense as mine, as tensions between the two countries weren't as bad as they are now (or maybe Ontarians express them differently).  He visited me last year and was really floored by how much nastier people were here in Vancouver than in Toronto (where he goes regularly for business purposes)—at least from his perspective.

One of the nice things about some of the freelancing I'm doing now is that I get to meet and work with lots of different people on an ongoing basis.  The other day I went into a new gig and was really enjoying the group I was working with until we hit a situation that I was able to help with because it involved communicating with someone I used to know in the US, and that's when my origins became known.

I'll give these people credit because they were nice about it, and it didn't matter to them.  But I have to admit that I could have done without the rest of our conversation during the day being dominated by Bush, the Iraq war, how ignorant Americans are about Canada, etc, etc.  I don't think people realise how sick to death I am of this.  

I've tried to explain to some of my friends here how it literally hurts to watch your country being destroyed the way mine is, and to be powerless to do anything about it—it's one of the main reasons why I came here in the first place.  I've gotten to the point where I try to stay as busy as possible during the weeks approaching Independence Day, and to ignore American media as much as I can—as it saddens and depresses me probably beyond your imagination to contemplate what my ancestors fought for and what has become of it since.  I still love my country, just not my government, and I'm forced to suffer in silence because to try to express this to the people around me is to open myself up to a lot of abuse.

My responses in this thread were meant to attempt to let a very impressionable individual know that acting upon this particular fantasy was likely to lead to great disappointment—as I have yet to meet an American who emigrated anytime in the past 15 years who hasn't had experiences that were eerily similar to mine.  That's all.
 

[P.C.]

I certainly wasn't directing my comments at anyone specific.  Just a general observation of of human nature.  (myself included)

[P.C.]

It isn't even in my relm of thinking to hold an individual 'responsible' for their countrys' politics.  I have many friends who are American, and they are friends because they are good people. Nothing more, nothing less.  I also have 'friends', who are Canadian, who think all their problems stem from our government....when in fact many of their problems are directly related to how they choose to live in this world.  

  You're clearly intelligent and well educated, Dissident, and I can't help but wonder if a certain amount of people would be intimidated by that alone.  I'm no scholar, but I've always taken people on face value....I don't care what their ancestors may have done or what politics their country of origin has.  I know I often have an overly simplistic way of looking at things sometimes, but it works for me.

  Many years ago, my sister and her husband went on the vacation of HIS dreams.  They travelled Europe.  To make a long story short.....my sister complained about everything.  The people in France were this, the people in Italy were that......etc. etc. etc.  At the same time, my husband (who wasn't my husband at the time) had also taken almost the same 'tour', came back with the most opposite opinion.  The people in Italy were SO friendly and helpful, the people in France were most gracious.....etc.  We actually met as a result of my butting into a conversation to hear about his experience.  It was his outlook alone that drew me to him.  It occurred to me that his positive experience was a result of HIS positive  nature. (and of course my sisters negative experience was a result of hers )  

  My comments earlier were to include the people who found it neccesary to dump their woes on your shoulders.....and yet your first reaction was to feel  it was personal.