Am I using Canada as a form of 'escapism'?

[Lise]

You're probably right there, tenkani-san but I'm not saying that most Canadians are like that. Maybe I'm naive (ok, I admit to that) but I'm always a great believer of this nation and her ppl. I think we're better off than most countries (yes, call me a patriot) but Canada is a country that's worth fighting for. Her ideals and policies may not perfect but they're better than most places. (I want to say the states - meep)

 I think the majority of Canadians are tolerant and friendly. At least the most Canadians I met are generally that way. I feel that BC ppl are by far, the most relaxed, most understandable - then again, that's just my opinion.

 [FONT size=1][FONT color=#ff0000]Sometimes I think Lise lives in a bubble dome where violence and bad things don't happen......[/FONT]
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[tenkani]

I'm in a rather black mood right now, so forgive me if I've offended you.
On the other hand, I don't know that we can just dismiss everything that's said on DV as coming from cranks and yanks.

The first time I heard someone on DV make a racist comment I was FLOORED. That should tell you how naive I was. Meh. Time to go...
 
 

[Some Chick]

I love being Canadian.  What I don't like is our apathy.  I wish that we were more involved with the world and more interested in what was going on in our own back yards.

  Having said that, please don't ask me if I vote.

  Yes, I am a hippocryte... er hipo... er .... How do ya spell that?      

[Lise]

tenkani wrote:
I'm in a rather black mood right now, so forgive me if I've offended you.
On the other hand, I don't know that we can just dismiss everything that's said on DV as coming from cranks and yanks.

The first time I heard someone on DV make a racist comment I was FLOORED. That should tell you how naive I was. Meh. Time to go...

 
     Ah hell, tenkani - you can NEVER offend me so pls don't hold back, bro.

  There is wayyyy to much racism on DV. Nothing fazzles me anymore.

[tenkani]

I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to steal "fazzles" from you.
I promise to pay 5 cents (American) every time I use it though!!!
 

[Sportsdude]

One thing I like about Canada is its ideals.

One thing I don't like about Canada is that it seems to be a reflection of me:  They say the good things, think up the good things but they don't act on it.  I've been reading a lot of history lately and Canada whenever its had to evolve into something greater had to do so kicking and screaming.

Another thing I don't like is that they don't stand up for themselves on an international stage as much as they should and they come off as timid.

They can't stand being made fun of but they can make fun of other nations. (Remember the insult dog and Conan O'Brien, whenever some looney right winger makes a comment on Canada i.e. Tucker Carlson calling Canada 'retarded cousin' it makes front page news.)

  But those can be shed like anything else.  For example I wish more people were watching the stanley cup playoffs when the games are in edmonton. The crowd sings both national anthems without the jumbo tron help.  NBC caught on to this and showed the national anthems on TV when most american sports networks never show the anthems before the game.  The american announcers called it the greatest thing they have ever seen.

  Overall I still like Canada, still want to move there but I've come down to earth on my expectations. Nothing is Utopian.  If I get to where I want to go in life (which I know I can do it) I have some great ideas.

[tenkani]

Never give up hope, SD.
You're a good guy and I'm sure you're going to make whatever country you end up in a better place.
Don't mind this jaded old nihilist    
 

[Sportsdude]

I see the young getting involved in politics up north and wanting to make the place a better world, while down here its the polar opposite.  

[tenkani]

Mmmm, nationwide you may be right.

Here in California we have a fair share of idealistic, activist youth. I live a short drive from Santa Cruz, which is a hotbed of such activity. But I know that Santa Cruz does not represent the rest of the country in any way, shape or form. Berkeley is another bastion of progressive thought, but again, Berkeley is seen by "the mainstream" as being more of a bastion of elitism and enviro-loonies.

The neo-cons were very effective in turning liberalism into a dirty word and convincing the American public that conservative power-brokers and politicians are "one of ya'll".
 

[Sportsdude]

Yep. Being a liberal now has a totally differnt meaing.  Now people are starting to use the word progressive instead.

Well over here more kids are going into the neo-con social conservative movement. Even though they are not practising what they preach because I've seen them at parties and they sure aren't conservative then....

[Dissident]

 For SD and anyone else who takes exception to my responses in this thread, I want to make clear that I'm not here to diss Canada.  But, like tenkani, I think it's important to point out to the many starry-eyed Americans who are looking for an escape from what's terrible in the US that Canada is not the promised land.  

Additionally, if my posts indicated anything, one of the worst things about living here is becoming a lightning rod for Canadian anti-Americanism, no matter how subtle people believe their expression of it is.  It doesn't matter if you're opposed to the Bush government, there are people here who are looking for someone who is safe to dump on, and if you come up here you have to be prepared for that.  

As a female, I've had to deal with that sort of behaviour from men all my life, and I have to admit that, as a  middle-class Caucasian, I have been hard-pressed to sort out whether some of the grief and harrassment I've dealt with here has been due to my gender or my nationality.  That said, I've seen a lot more regressive attitudes towards women here than I'm used to—certainly more than I expected.  One of the things I've noticed is that those who express overtly homophobic sentiments—and the tolerance for that here is also something I'm not used to—are also more likely to harbour not particularly admirable attitudes towards women.

Compared to where you are in the Midwest, that may not sound so bad, SD, but I've never encountered this kind of attitude even on an Army base in the Deep South, so I'm going to go out on a limb and postulate that, despite the laws, there are much more acceptably delineated double standards applied to anyone who isn't an Anglo-Saxon heterosexual male here than there are in the US (much like in Europe).  Whether that's a reflection of a willingness to bring one's racism and sexism in the open instead of mouthing the right words and hiding behind self-satisfied bromides I don't know.  But I do think that it is significant that there has never been any form of Affirmative Action or Title IX type of legislation here—and it shows.

I've known young guys like you who have come up here and—being male and Caucasian—have gained much more acceptance than I, but who have confided to me how sick they are of the almost obligatory crap they have to put up with on a daily basis about their nationality, even from people who flatter themselves with the designation of "friend".   With "friends" like that . . .

   

[Sportsdude]

 I wouldn't have to worry about the nationality thing because A) I'll probly burn my american citzenship which means B) I probly won't be dual.

And it wouldn't bother me because I've been called anti-american down here so do in rome as the romans do...[/DIV]

[Gopher]

This is one of  the most interesting threads on the board - thanks to everyone who made it so.  

[Dissident]

 Sportsdude wrote:
 [div]I wouldn't have to worry about the nationality thing because A) I'll probly burn my american citzenship which means B) I probly won't be dual.
And it wouldn't bother me because I've been called anti-american down here so do in rome as the romans do...[/div]

Forgive me if I address you in a more "American" manner and if I'm perfectly blunt.  This, after all, is an American-based forum . . .

Dude, you just don't get it.  You could go around here with a big sign saying, "I Hate George Bush and the USA" on a maple leaf background or one of those silly "I am Canadian" beer shirts and people will still take the opportunity to dump on you because you were BORN American.  

Your sentiments and your "paper status" are immaterial.  As in the US, there are a lot of ignorant jerks here who love to find a target for their frustrations—and there is no political incorrectness in harrassing and discriminating against Americans.  These people could give a rat's ass how you feel about the US, whether you hold Canadian citizenship or how much you love Canada.  Yahoos like this blame us for everything from the lack of jobs in their field to astronomical housing costs to street crime to why it hasn't stopped raining in three weeks.

It doesn't matter if you don't customarily mention where you're from:  once they find out, some of these bastards will make it their business to let everyone in your "shared milieu"—be it your neighbourhood, workplace or whatever—know, so that even before anyone has had a chance to get to know you and make up their mind about you, one of the first things you will hear upon meeting them is, "oh, you must be the American".  From then on, you're always the outsider—and you'll hear about it whenever the US does something that people don't like, whether you are in agreement or not.

Believe me, I tried to slip in under the radar and just make a life for myself here.  I was stupid enough to think it was possible.  Before I even moved here I had people (usually women, so I assume it wasn't a pickup line) come up to me in the street or in shops and ask me if I had gone to high school with them, I looked familiar, was I from (White Rock, Port Alberni, New West, Ontario, wherever), so I figured that at least I didn't visually stick out (plus there was the very real possibility that they may have been referring to a distant relation).  Even now, as long as I'm in an anonymous situation I stand a chance, but once they find out I'm American it's a crap shoot.  

So if you're asking if you're using Canada as a form of escapism, I have to answer:  yes, you are.  As I did.

If you don't act on the dream of escaping the US and reinventing yourself here amongst people who are "just like you", Canada will always be the shining city on the hill.  If that's what you want, great.  Just bear in mind that your fantasy bears about as much resemblance to reality as teenaged dreams of nailing your favourite pinup girl.

As I said, SD—not to be rude, just honest.
 

[Sportsdude]

But they act the same way down here when I get into political arguements. So I don't see the point.  In Saint Louis everyone asks you where you went to high school. I never finished at a local high school and was home schooled.  If your from the west coast or east coast you are looked down on for being snotty.  If you have a differnt colour on your skin you  are attacked in the schools and questioned why are you here.  I have witnessed all of this in Missouri where if you don't have social conservative tendencies and aren't raw raw america you are a traitor.  So if Vancouver is like that (which I know it is in the college campuses because I read things) fine.  But I've also learned that its a Vancouver thing and that places back east aren't hung up.  But if I get fried for happening to be born in the U.S. I could careless.  Because down here I've always lived my life like I was a lamb among wolves and so I Vancouver treats me like that, so what I don't care I'm use to it, even though I'm on there side.  As Pierre Trudeau said: "Just Watch Me".