Forbidden Love- Brother and Sister want German Laws overturned

Started by Sportsdude, Mar 07 07 10:40

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Sportsdude

Couple stand by forbidden love
BBC News

At their home in Leipzig, Patrick Stuebing and Susan Karolewski are in the kitchen, playing with a young toddler.                             
                           [div class="bo"] They share a small flat in an east German tower block on the outskirts of the city. It looks like an ordinary family scene, but Patrick is Susan's brother and they are lovers.[/p]"Many people see it as a crime, but we've done nothing wrong," said Patrick, an unemployed locksmith.                              [/p] "We are like normal lovers. We want to have a family. Our whole family broke apart when we were younger, and after that happened, Susan and I were brought closer together," he said.[/p]Patrick, who is 30 years old, was adopted and, as a child, he lived in Potsdam.                        
 [/p]He did not meet his mother and biological family until he was 23.  He travelled to Leipzig with a friend in 2000, determined to make contact with his other relatives.  
[/p][/div][div class="ibox"]"This law is out of date and it breaches the couple's civil rights"
[!--Emva--][!--Smva--][!--Emva--]  -Lawyer Endrik Wilhelm    [/div]

[div class="bo"]He met his sister Susan for the first time, and according to the couple, after their mother died, they fell in love.                              "When I was younger, I didn't know that I had a brother. I met Patrick and I was so surprised," said Susan, who is 22.                            
She says she does not feel guilty about their relationship.                            
"I hope this law will be overturned," Susan said.                              [/p] "I just want to live with my family, and be left alone by the authorities and by the courts," she went on, in a hardly audible voice. [/p]Jail sentence                                                      
Patrick and Susan have been living together for the last six years, and they now have four children.      
The authorities placed their first son, Eric, in the care of a foster family, and two other children were also placed in care.                              [/p] "Our children are with foster parents. We talk to them as often as possible, but the authorities have taken away so much from us," said Susan.
"We only have our little daughter, Sofia, who is living with us," she said.                             [/p]Incest is a criminal offence in Germany. Patrick Stuebing has already served a two-year sentence for committing incest and there is another jail term looming if paragraph 173 of the legal code is not overturned. [/p][/div][div class="bo"] The couple's lawyer, Endrik Wilhelm, has lodged an appeal with Germany's highest judicial body, the federal Constitutional Court in Karlsruhe, in order to overturn the country's ban on incest. [/p] "Under Germany's criminal code, which dates back to 1871, it is a crime for close relatives to have sex and it's punishable by up to three years in prison. This law is out of date and it breaches the couple's civil rights," Dr Wilhelm said. [/p] "Why are disabled parents allowed to have children, or people with hereditary diseases or women over 40? No-one says that is a crime. [/p] "This couple are not harming anyone. It is discrimination. And besides, we must not forget that every child is so valuable," said Dr Wilhelm. [/p][/div][div class="ibox"]
"We would like society to recognise us, as any other normal couple"
[!--Emva--][!--Smva--][!--Emva--]- Patrick Stuebing


[/div]Full Story from BBC NEWS:[br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 191);"][a style="color: rgb(0, 0, 191);" href="vny!://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/europe/6424937.stm"] vny!://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/europe/6424937.stm[/a]


 Patrick and Susan did not know each other as children

[div class="mvtb"]       [a onclick="jvascript:newsi.utils.av.launch((storyId:6421839, fileLoc: '/player/nol/newsid_6420000/newsid_6421800/', nbram: 1,bbwm: 1,bbram: 1,nbwm: 1));return false;" href="vny!://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/player/nol/newsid_6420000/newsid_6421800?redirect=6421839.stm&news=1&nbram=1&bbwm=1&bbram=1&nbwm=1"]          [img]vny!://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/icons/video_text.gif" alt="" align="left" border="0" height="13" vspace="0"]Interview with couple[/a][a onclick="jvascript:newsi.utils.av.launch((storyId:6421839, fileLoc: '/player/nol/newsid_6420000/newsid_6421800/', nbram: 1,bbwm: 1,bbram: 1,nbwm: 1));return false;" href="vny!://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/player/nol/newsid_6420000/newsid_6421800?redirect=6421839.stm&news=1&nbram=1&bbwm=1&bbram=1&nbwm=1"]       [/a]    [/div]
 
     
"We can't stop here. This is bat country."

Lil Me

Wasn't this an episode of the Young & Restless?  
"In the absence of clearly-defined goals, we become strangely loyal to performing daily trivia until ultimately we become enslaved by it."  Robert Heinlein

Sportsdude

lol that was fiction this is real.  Although you might be thinking of a Maury episode of a brother and sister a couple weeks back.

Anyway they've got 4 kids apparently.
 
"We can't stop here. This is bat country."

Lise

Oh gawd. That's just sick!!!!

  Can you imagine the IQ of their kids? Sorry but this is just so wrong. If my hubby turned out to be my brother (shudders) I think I'm gonna jump off the nearest building.

  This reminds me of V.C. Andrew's book, Flowers in the Attic. Really good book (yes, there's a movie about this) and also talks about brother/sister love.
Always end the name of your child with a vowel, so that when you yell the name will carry.
Bill Cosby.

Vivek Golikeri

If a closely blood-related couple agrees to use birth control and adopt, in that case it should be legalized. But to conceive and bear inbred children is still very, very wrong. To justify restricting someone's personal freedom, lawmakers should be forced to provide rational arguments backed up by evidence that such restriction is regrettably necessary in order to avoid harm to innocent persons. In matters of private choice, majority rule should never be allowed to trample on people's happiness.

  Before birth control existed, anti-fornication laws had some validity because sex outside marriage ran the risk of an unwanted baby without family security and love. Someday in the future, genetic engineering will make it possible for either the brother or the sister ( or both ) to change their genes so the kids will not be conceived by the union of related genetic material.  Until then, incest between consenting adults should be legalized, but only if they do not produce offspring.

P.C.

Until then, incest between consenting adults should be legalized, but only if they do not produce offspring.

  I'm of the opinion, that the only business the law has interfering with an incestuous relationship, is to ensure that they both receive a mandatory trip to the psychiatrists couch.

  This doesn't seem to be about the freedom to love.  This seems to be more about the inability of some to distinguish between the healthy love for family from intimate love.  
Sir Isaac Newton invented the swinging door....for the convenience of his cat.