"Probably" Won't Destroy The World

[Mutilated Mind]

Did you say something ?  :P

[TehBorken]

 Mutilated Mind wrote:
If you say so...

Yes, I do say so.



What sound ? There are sound waves, but tell me where is that sound you are saying is there ?

Sorry, I just can't parse that sentence into anything meaningful.
 

[Gopher]

TehBorken, the answer is clear - to understand it you need a similarly mutilated mind.

[Mutilated Mind]

TehBorken wrote:
 
Yes, I do say so.
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And according to you, just saying "there is no mind" is enough to make it that way ?


TehBorken also wrote:
Mutilated Mind wrote:
What sound ? There are sound waves, but tell me where is that sound you are saying is there ?

Sorry, I just can't parse that sentence into anything meaningful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I believe you might need some help here.
"Tell me where is that sound you are saying is there ?"  means "please explain to me where that sound is located about which you are saying it exists".

You might also understand it this way : Please inform me about the place where that sound, of which you told me it is there, exists.

[TehBorken]

 Mutilated Mind wrote:
And according to you, just saying "there is no mind" is enough to make it that way ?

Absolutely.

Mutilated Mind also wrote:
"Tell me where is that sound you are saying is there ?"  means "please explain to me where that sound is located about which you are saying it exists".

This sentence should be taken out and shot, lol.


You might also understand it this way : Please inform me about the place where that sound, of which you told me it is there, exists.
 
Oh, that's easy. Like all sound, it exists in the energy that's being expressed as modulated variations in air pressure. It doesn't require there to be a "listener" for it to exist. The "place" is wherever the energy is being expressed.

It's like a book falling off of a shelf in your home. Does it hitting the floor depend on whether or not you're there to see it?

[TehBorken]

 TehBorken wrote:
 Mutilated Mind wrote:
And according to you, just saying "there is no mind" is enough to make it that way ?

Absolutely.  If you disagree, please show me this "mind" of which you speak.


Mutilated Mind also wrote:
"Tell me where is that sound you are saying is there ?"  means "please explain to me where that sound is located about which you are saying it exists".

This sentence should be taken out and shot, lol.


You might also understand it this way : Please inform me about the place where that sound, of which you told me it is there, exists.
 
Oh, that's easy. Like all sound, it exists in the energy that's being expressed as modulated variations in air pressure. It doesn't require there to be a "listener" for it to exist. The "place" is wherever the energy is being expressed.

It's like a book falling off of a shelf in your home. Does it hitting the floor depend on whether or not you're there to see it?

 

[Mutilated Mind]

TehBorken wrote:
 It's like a book falling off of a shelf in your home. Does it hitting the floor depend on whether or not you're there to see it?
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I won't go into the remainder of your reply, it's all funny but irrelevant to the issue ; but here you are definitely cheating, would you agree with that ?

[TehBorken]

   Mutilated Mind wrote:
I won't go into the remainder of your reply, it's all funny but irrelevant to the issue ; but here you are definitely cheating, would you agree with that ?

No, I would absolutely not agree with that. I don't need to cheat when it comes to explaining basic physics because it works the same whether or not someone believes in it.
 

[Mutilated Mind]

TehBorken wrote:
No, I would absolutely not agree with that.
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You should.

I don't need to cheat when it comes to explaining basic physics because it works the same whether or not someone believes in it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But still, you do, as you are unsubtly diverting the issue from the sound to the fact itself of the tree having fallen without making it appear this way.

Assignment : read this.
vny!://www.spectacle.org/396/scifi/tree.html
vny!://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_236.html

[TehBorken]

 Mutilated Mind wrote:
But still, you do, as you are unsubtly diverting the issue from the sound to the fact itself of the tree having fallen without making it appear this way.

So you're claiming that in the absence of an observer, physical processes magically change the way they behave? That "sound" doesn't exist unless someone is there to hear it? Don't be silly, I'll lose all respect for you, such as it is.


Assignment : read this.
vny!://www.spectacle.org/396/scifi/tree.html
vny!://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_236.html

Thanks, but I've got plenty of homework to do already. Perhaps you could summarize the articles for us.

[P.C.]

OK....this is frightening territory for me.  I think I might actually agree with MM.[img style="CURSOR: pointer" onclick=url(this.src); src="vny!://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/konfus/f035.gif" border=0]

  As I understand it, sound is the result of 'sound waves' vibrating the eardrum.  If the eardrums were not present, the waves are without purpose.  If you asked a deaf person if they heard the tree fall in the forest,  they would say the tree made no sound.  He is not lying, nor is he mis-informed. His eardrums are non-functioning.  Until that little membrane is present and functioning, there is no sound.

[kitten]

Whether they are heard or not, the sound waves still exist.  Even if a deaf person couldn't hear the sond of the falling tree, the impact would be felt.

[TehBorken]

  P.C. wrote:  If the eardrums were not present, the waves are without purpose.

That's arguable, but "purpose" has nothing to do with whether or not the sound waves are actually there.


If you asked a deaf person if they heard the tree fall in the forest,  they would say the tree made no sound.  He is not lying, nor is he mis-informed. His eardrums are non-functioning.  

Correct, but that doesn't mean the sound isn't there. If a blind person can't see a sign, it doesn't mean it's not there.


Until that little membrane is present and functioning, there is no sound.
 Nope, the sound is there whether or not someone is there to hear it or whether or not someone is deaf.

 

[TehBorken]

 kitten wrote:
Whether they are heard or not, the sound waves still exist.

Bingo.

 

[Mutilated Mind]

TehBorken wrote:
kitten wrote:
Whether they are heard or not, the sound waves still exist.

Bingo.
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Bingo is it ? Oh my God, I can't believe this.

If I tell you: "this street exists" as a reply to: "is this a street with dangerous traffic ?" I am certainly right but there is nothing interesting about it and if I am trying to look clever with this reply, well...

In a few more words, nobody - nobody at all ever said anything about whether the sound waves exist or not. So if you come galloping on your horse and boldly shouting: "the sound waves exist", I am sorry but I can only tell you to go play elsewhere. I may sound rude but, kitten, I have know you to willfully troll my threads before.