Sexist Study Full Of Shit

Started by TehBorken, May 03 06 07:31

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TehBorken

 And what should fathers "earn" for doing all the things they do? This is the most f*cked up full-of-shit "study" I've ver seen. What a load of crap.
I'm a stay-at-home dad, so where's my paycheck? Oh, that's right- I do it because I'm a parent, not for the big bucks. Gee, that's what I thought marriage and raising kids was all about- a partnership where each person helps to accomplish the goal of raising the kids. And we're supposed to pay mothers for simply doing their part? Excuse me whilst I go puketh.

Of course if you take the study and then factor in all of the stuff they don't count (free food and housing, medical care, a personal car, etc) then you realize that this study is a huge load of sexist bullshit.
[hr style="width: 100%; height: 2px;"] [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]By Ellen Wulfhorst[/font][/font][/p]  [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]NEW YORK (Reuters) - A full-time stay-at-home mother would  earn $134,121 a year if paid for all her work, an amount  similar to a top U.S. ad executive, a marketing director or a  judge, according to a study released on Wednesday.[/font][/font][/p]  [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]A mother who works outside the home would earn an extra  $85,876 annually on top of her actual wages for the work she  does at home, according to the study by Waltham,  Massachusetts-based compensation experts Salary.com.[/font][/font][/p]  [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]To reach the projected pay figures, the survey calculated  the earning power of the 10 jobs respondents said most closely  comprise a mother's role -- housekeeper, day-care teacher,  cook, computer operator, laundry machine operator, janitor,  facilities manager, van driver, chief executive and  psychologist.[/font][/font][/p]  [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]"You can't put a dollar value on it. It's worth a lot  more," said Kristen Krauss, 35, as she hurriedly packed her  four children, all aged under 8, into a minivan in New York  while searching frantically for her keys. "Just look at me."[/font][/font][/p]  [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]Employed mothers reported spending on average 44 hours a  week at their outside job and 49.8 hours at their home job,  while the stay-at-home mother worked 91.6 hours a week, it  showed.[/font][/font][/p]  [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]An estimated 5.6 million women in the United States are  stay-at-home mothers with children under age 15, according to  the most recent U.S. Census Bureau data. [/font][/font][/p]  [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]NOT 'JUST A MOM'[/font][/font][/p]  [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]"It's good to acknowledge the job that's being done, and  that it's not that these women are settling for 'just a mom,"'  said Bill Coleman, senior vice president of compensation at  Salary.com. "They are actually doing an awful lot."[/font][/font][/p]  [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, some 26  million women with children under age 18 work in the nation's  paid labor force.[/font][/font][/p]  [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]Both employed and stay-at-home mothers said the  lowest-paying job of housekeeper was their most common role,  with employed mothers working 7.2 hours a week as housekeeper  and stay-at-home mothers working 22.1 hours in that role.[/font][/font][/p]  [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]"Every husband I've ever spoken to said, 'I'm keeping my  job. You keep yours.' It's a tough one," said Gillian Forrest,  39, a stay-at-home mother of 22-month-old Alex in New York. "I  don't know if you could put a dollar amount on it but it would  be nice to get something."[/font][/font][/p]  [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]To compile its study, Salary.com surveyed about 400 mothers  online over the last two months.[/font][/font][/p]  [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]Salary.com offers a Web site (vny!://www.mom.salary.com)  where mothers can calculate what they could be paid, based on  how many children they have, where they live and other factors.  The site will produce a printable document that looks like a  paycheck, Coleman said.[/font][/font][/p]  [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]"It's obviously not negotiable," he said.[/font][/font][/p]  [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]On average, the mother who works outside the house earns a  base pay of $62,798 for a 40-hour at-home work week and $23,078  in overtime; a stay-at-home mother earned a base pay of $45,697  and $88,424 in overtime, it said.[/font][/font][/p]  [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]In a Salary.com study conducted last year, stay-at-home  mothers earned $131,471. The potential earnings of mothers who  work outside the home was not calculated in the previous study. (That's because they'd NEVER make that wagein the real world doing what the study considers as "work". -tb)
[/font][/font][/p][hr style="width: 100%; height: 2px;"][a href="vny!://reuters.myway.com/article/20060503/2006-05-03T090712Z_01_N02301962_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-LIFE-WORK-DC.html"]Full-Of-Shit-Study[/a]
 
The real trouble with reality is that there's no background music.

Mutilated Mind

And nobody is asking WHO should pay those mothers ?
Well, obviously the kids should !  :)

I mean, if kids can now sue their parents, well then, I think they should pay their parents for parenting !

P.C.

I read this as a 'hypothetical' amount that 'mothers' are 'worth' (IF you were inclinded to put a dollar value on it).....not that anyone should, or is going to pay them.  I believe this frame of thinking came about from some womens own insecurities and from some mens lack of value for a mothers' role.  Stemming from the 50's where the thinking was, 'a womans' place is in the home', a new generation of women decided it should weigh in with a monetary value.  

  Men knew their 'value' because they could read it every week in black and white, where a womans 'value' was more 'elusive'....not 'documented'.....it wasn't there for her to see, and it wasn't recognized by the 50's breadwinner.   (I know.....nobody's value is based on how many zeros are on their paycheque.....I'm just playing the devils advocate here).

   In spite of a somewhat rocky path in raising 3 kids, I'd do it all again, but I'd be lying if I didn't admit that there has been the odd occasion I've wondered what I may have accomplished had I chosen a different path.  Of course I'm generalizing, but I think that men have a better opportunity to do that.  For the most part (traditionally thinking) men are still able to persue carreers, with less restrictions when they have children. (I'm asking for it, aren't I....lol)

  Anyways, that's where I believe this came about.

  I agree TehBorken......that it truly IS about partnership and simply being a parent.....but you lost me on the free food and housing, personal car etc. part....lol.  I like to think I earned every kilometer, and allowed hubby to dine on some pretty fine cuisine at a much 'nicer price' than the local Burger Kings (standard fare for him before we married).  And that's my 9cents worth. (that's 2 cents plus overtime)
Sir Isaac Newton invented the swinging door....for the convenience of his cat.

Mutilated Mind

Don't take it personally, P.C.... But I wouldn't like to be married to a woman who refers to me as "hubby". Few men would.

tenkani

Not to pick a fight or anything, but my wife calls me hubby on occasion and I've never thought to be offended. Am I missing something?

  EDIT: Ok, on-topic:

  First off, the study should refer to stay-at-home "parents" rather than "moms". Things have changed, and assuming that the custodial/stay-at-home parent is female is really outdated thinking.

  Second, and I think this might have been what Borken was saying, it's not balanced to simply look at the amount of hours a stay-at-home parent puts in and then ignore all the benefits. If only one parent works, then that parent's income is generally paying for the housing, food, entertainment, transportation etc of the stay-at-home parent. So framing the conversation in such a way as to imply that the stay-at-home-parent gets nothing is incorrect IMO.

  Like TB said, in a family each person does their part.
For thou art with me; thy cream and thy sugar they comfort me
Thou preparest a carafe before me in the presence of Juan Valdez
Thou anointest my day with pep; my mug runneth over
Surely richness and taste shall follow me all the days of my life
And I will dwell in the house of coffee forever.

Mutilated Mind

tenkani wrote:
Not to pick a fight or anything, but my wife calls me hubby on occasion and I've never thought to be offended. Am I missing something?
-------------------------------------------

If you are the same tenkani who started the thread about that church, what's its name again, over on Discovervancouver which went on for more than twenty pages, then that would explain something. As I remember, you told of yourself that you are homosexual and even mentioned your lover.

Don't take it personally, you said that yourself.

tenkani

If you are the same tenkani who started the thread about that church, what's its name again, over on Discovervancouver which went on for more than twenty pages, then that would explain something. As I remember, you told of yourself that you are homosexual and even mentioned your lover.

Don't take it personally, you said that yourself.
  Sorry, what is your point?
For thou art with me; thy cream and thy sugar they comfort me
Thou preparest a carafe before me in the presence of Juan Valdez
Thou anointest my day with pep; my mug runneth over
Surely richness and taste shall follow me all the days of my life
And I will dwell in the house of coffee forever.

ephraim zimbalist

That wasn't really Mutilated Mind. That was Ellie-May's brother Jethro. You know, Jed's brother?  

miarhpe tsilabmiz


TehBorken

 tenkani wrote:
[em][/em] [div style="font-style: italic;"]Sorry, what is your point?[/div]
Near as I can make out, MM is in some awe of your unparalleled ability to start long threads on the DV message board.
 
The real trouble with reality is that there's no background music.

Sportsdude

These studies are right wing proganda that is trying to send a message to mothers and future mothers that they don't belong in the work place after having kids.  
"We can't stop here. This is bat country."

P.C.

 tenkani wrote:  First off, the study should refer to stay-at-home "parents" rather than "moms". Things have changed, and assuming that the custodial/stay-at-home parent is female is really outdated thinking.

  Agreed, tenkani....I was referring to it as 'traditional' thinking....but outdated is more accurate.  To clarify.....I don't agree with this studys' findings, but I DO understand how they came about.

  Second, and I think this might have been what Borken was saying, it's not balanced to simply look at the amount of hours a stay-at-home parent puts in and then ignore all the benefits. If only one parent works, then that parent's income is generally paying for the housing, food, entertainment, transportation etc of the stay-at-home parent. So framing the conversation in such a way as to imply that the stay-at-home-parent gets nothing is incorrect IMO.

  And I agree with your second point, if we were talking about the real world.  But if keeping to the wheres and whys specifically set out in this 'study', I would say. "If only one parent works, then that parent's income is generally paying for the housing, food, entertainment, transportation etc of the stay-at-home parent".  Basing my comments on the content of the study, I would respond, the working parent is only able to work because their partner has assumed the other role.....making it a 50/50 agreement.  PERSONALLY......I think assigning a dollar value couldn't (shouldn't, wouldn't) even come in to play.....the very fact that it's a 50/50 agreement.....why would one have to take it any further than that.  



And, by the way MM.....as it would be foolish to call him by name....I chose to use what I think of as an affectionate term for my husband.[/DIV]
Sir Isaac Newton invented the swinging door....for the convenience of his cat.

tenkani

[FONT face="Arial Narrow"]BTW, I have a lot of respect for stay-at-home parents who take their jobs seriously. I also know from experience that some of them spend most of their time watching TV and playing video games. I guess my point is that every individual situation is different so making statements like "a full-time stay-at-home mother would  earn $134,121 a year if paid for all her work" is the kind of massive generalization that does little to change anyone's opinion. Those that already agree with the sentiment will nod knowingly. Those that disagree will be disgusted and hold even more firmly to their views.[/FONT]

[FONT face="Arial Narrow"][/FONT]

[FONT face="Arial Narrow"]Just so I'm not misunderstood, I repeat, stay-at-home-parents who take their role seriously are awsome. Those who don't are not deserving of any particular accolades.[/FONT]
For thou art with me; thy cream and thy sugar they comfort me
Thou preparest a carafe before me in the presence of Juan Valdez
Thou anointest my day with pep; my mug runneth over
Surely richness and taste shall follow me all the days of my life
And I will dwell in the house of coffee forever.

P.C.

I think I'm doing a very poor job of dividing my comments from what I feel, and what I feel the study is trying to say..  My first post was basically playing devils advocate.  I GET what they are trying to 'imply'.....I don't necessarily agree with it....but I get it.  I think if this were a study done in the 50's, it may have had some value, if only to put a spotlight on the incredible job of the stay at home parents (which at the time was predominately women).  Other than that, I see no value in it, in 2006.

  I've raised 3 kids, and the thought of what it would be worth in dollars, was something that never occurred to me......still doesn't.  I enjoyed what I was doing and I like to think I did it well. It's the oldest cliche in the book, but there are some things that you just can't put a dollar figure on. (or shouldn't put a dollar figure on).   'Money Can't Buy You Love',  and it certainly won't make you a better parent either.
Sir Isaac Newton invented the swinging door....for the convenience of his cat.

Mutilated Mind

P.C. wrote:
And, by the way MM.....as it would be foolish to call him by name....I chose to use what I think of as an affectionate term for my husband.
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MM stands for Mutilated Mind and you know it... why would it be foolish to call me by my nick ? Aren't you making things up a little ?

Your freedom of choice is not under attack here, no need to take that attitude. I stated my opinion about this "affectionate term". And even after I did so, you are still free to use it !

See ?

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