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A ruling in Victoria, will now allow the homeless to set up tent towns in the city parks.  This seems like a decision with absolutely no foresight.  By allowing this, will it not violate loitering laws, public urinating laws....and I'm sure several others.  I can't help wonder what these parks will look like a couple years down the road.  Would it be OK for everyone or anyone to camp in the park for free ?  It seems like this is opening a big ol can of worms....and in the end, accomplishes nothing for the homeless problem.

  Any thoughts ?  

No because its only the homeless and no one else. The 'one else' being the ones paying for the parks.

Its the judge thinking he's being smart by calling attention to himself, and trying to force the politicians to do something about the homeless by making them more visible.

To be honest, it does make sence in a way. They are public parks, paid for by the public for everyone.. if the homeless have no where else to go?
 

I just don't see it as a solution to the homeless problem.  It's a bandaid that barely covers the sore.  I strongly believe that something has to be done....but I'm not at all convinced that this is it.  Surely we can come up with a plan that's better than this ?

  I can't see how they are going to enforce any guidelines for people travelling from other places to camp in Victoria's parks. (as in non-homeless people)

 P.C. wrote:
[div style="font-style: italic;"]I just don't see it as a solution to the homeless problem.  It's a bandaid that barely covers the sore.  I strongly believe that something has to be done....but I'm not at all convinced that this is it.  Surely we can come up with a plan that's better than this ? [/div] [div style="font-style: italic;"] [/div] [div style="font-style: italic;"]I can't see how they are going to enforce any guidelines for people travelling from other places to camp in Victoria's parks. (as in non-homeless people)[/div]
Thats what I mean.. how does the 'no one' else fit in?

It IS a bandaid in my opinion. And its being done by the judge to put it into the limelight to force politicians to do something about it. (and put himself into the limelight)
 

Oh I see what you're saying with the 'no one else'.  Yes.....I agree.

       
 

They did sleep in front of city hall in front of Vancouver (victoria?) for a while. Until a local bylaw was passed and they were all chased away.  

Me too Michel.  (//vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/richedit/smileys/Sad/9.gif)   I don't know what the answer is, but I know this recent decision is only prolonging the necessity to do something real about it.  I hope Russ is right, and this is a ploy to throw it back at them to make them face the problem properly.  

     
 

   

Yes, let them stay, and let their presence be a denouement on present day society.  

   
 

I hear ya Gophie.  But that still does nothing to change present day soiciety.

Doesn't change it, just shows it up and lets it know where its priorities are.

 Gopher wrote:
[div style="font-style: italic;"]Doesn't change it, just shows it up and lets it know where its priorities are.[/div]
Truth.


 

 I wonder, if I were homeless and camping in a park and the cops chased me away, where would I go? There's no place that I can claim a right to - so maybe I would stay put and let them arrest me. What's the worst that could happen to me? I'd be in jail right? So I'd be entitled to a ham sandwich and lukewarm coffee in a scalding hot cup.

And I would be no more likely to be assaulted in jail than in a park, after all. And there would be a considerable police presence at all times. Not to mention dry conditions, usually.
   

I wonder, if I were homeless and camping in a park and the cops chased me away, where would I go? There's no place that I can claim a right to - so maybe I would stay put and let them arrest me. What's the worst that could happen to me? I'd be in jail right? So I'd be entitled to a ham sandwich and lukewarm coffee in a scalding hot cup.

And I would be no more likely to be assaulted in jail than in a park, after all. And there would be a considerable police presence at all times. Not to mention dry conditions, usually.

  Hey weird al !  I think a lot of them may be glad to spend a night somewhere dry and warm...and to be treated as well as a criminal.  

  I feel so badly for the plight of the homeless....while at the same time being frustrated with them.  For instance....why does it have to be IN Vancouver.  There are people who were born in Vancouver who have worked hard and payed taxes all their lives, some with double incomes or two jobs....and THEY can't even afford to live IN Vancouver.  

  All I know, is that the time for playing political games over this should be done.  If we spent as much energy in doing something about it, instead of shuffling around it, we'd be well on our way to having it fixed.

Well, if I'm ever going to be homeless, I'm going to look for the very best sort of area to be homeless in. UBC, Whistler, you know...  

lol...I suppose.

  I also suppose it could happen to anyone.  For every mentally unbalanced person out there on the streets, is a person with a university education.  The whole mess is too sad.

Unless the encampments are near populated areas where they can beg for loose change, the homeless are not going to use.

  BTW where is teh Sportsdude?   He could write a thesis on the subject

   

49er wrote:
BTW where is teh Sportsdude?   [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff40"]He could write a thesis on the subject[/FONT]    [img height=62 src="vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/richedit/smileys/Happy/8.gif" width=82 border=0] Hopefully, it can be truncated, somehow cuz he could write Cole's notes on it.
 

   

LOL Michel.  That took you a while to figure out how things get

B[FONT size=5] I[/FONT] [FONT size=6]G G[/FONT] [FONT size=7]E R[/FONT]!  (//vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/richedit/smileys/Teasing/4.gif)

     
 

I think you misunderstood or overlooked my joke.  LOL...that's ok.  

    [font style="background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" color="#ffffff"]
[/font]

Yep, I discovered that thanks to Lise a few weeks ago but didn't thought about applying the same concept to the emoticons.

  Lise showed you how to make it bigger ?  [img height=66 src="vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/richedit/smileys/Shocked/1.gif" width=73 border=0]    

LOL!  Now we're talking, P.C.!!!  

   

 

Ahahahaha. I taught Michel something? How come I don't remember? Me memory must be baaaaad.

  I think the homeless should set up a permanent campsite on Stephen Harper's backyard. That's the only solution.

  I don't think they should camp in public parks. I know I'm being self with this but if I want to go out and enjoy the public park, I would rather feel safe and happy. I'm ashamed to say that these homeless ppl scare the sh*t out of me. They.... uhm.... don't look very friendly but then again if I were in their shoes the last thing I want to be is being nice and friendly to outsiders.

   

What type of resources do they have over there that we don't have?

I don't think the expectation to take your children to the park without a colony of homeless is being selfish Lise.

  The closing of our mental hospitals has contributed hugely to the 'type' of homeless we have here.  So many of them are in need of psychiatric help.  I think the resourses we have would be closer to filling the needs, if the mentally ill were where they needed to be.

     

I think a lot of our homeless are from Montreal because of our mild winter climate.  [img style="CURSOR: pointer" onclick=url(this.src); src="vny!://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/frech/a015.gif[/img]

      (//vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/richedit/smileys/Happy/4.gif)

   

LOL.....I hear it's easier than some might think.  (//vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/richedit/smileys/Happy/12.gif)

   

How about a bag of chips ?

     

different types of homeless folks

mentally ill
- mental hospitals

drug addicted
- build rehabs centres in the interior or somewhere away from Vancouver or wherever they are doing drugs. Clear the mind, lose the influences on the corner that got these people lost

-homeless because of no jobs, and rent issues
  - massive get back to work schemes along with affordable housing. You would need something like a governmental work programme ala depression era.

the drug people that aren't lost
- rehab
- then rejoin society through the back to work program and affordable housing

the drug people who are lost
-mental hospitals with a nice garden and mountains or maybe an ocean view where they can live out the rest of their days in peace

Fix Federal Laws, centralize the federal government, maybe destroy this stupid concept of a Confederation which never work because its a root cause of everything that is politically wrong in Canada.
- Con Air program is a good example of what is wrong with Canada
- commit a crime in Manitoba come to BC and your record doesn't count. Total bullshit and don't scream provincial rights, provincial righters. Are we a country or an Umbrella country made up of individual countries, like a union? which is it?
- take national health care out of the hands of the provinces
- create a national mental health network
- people's rights trump silly provincial rights when it comes to common sense.

- real affordable housing, not just talk


One problem: Public will. The public mass does not have the inertia to fix societal problems because the solution requires money being taken out of their pocket to help their own brothers and sisters. So in the end nothing will get done.

 

Hey !  What happened.

  When you were in Missouri, Canada was Utopia.

because I was in Missouri. lol
When I'm in Canada, I'm always around people who talk about how small Vancouver is and people who are from Montreal or Toronto aka 'the big city'.

haha. I love it here. I'm just thinking critically and being realistic. Homelessness won't ever be solved because of the human capacity to fix it. It just takes too much effort. Humans don't like challenges, we try to figure ways around issues, we take the easy route. I know I do. The question "What is to be done?" ends up being "What is the cheapest and easiest option that takes no effort."

fact of life.


although the confederation rant is real. I hate confederations, I know they don't work efficiently and lead to provintgwpdm and loss of a unifying identity. Then overall Canada wastes too much energy trying to measure up to the country to the south of here. I dislike the fact that Canada doesn't have a real identity or motivation purpose other than the "we aren't big A-Americans" when English Canada pretty much is small a american (soft small a influences, culture, ideas, language, etc). But that's not your fault or the Canada's, this land just happens to live next to the US, so it takes the most damage culture wise in the english world. Australia is an island faraway with no competing same language influence and the UK is the UK.




 

Maybe I can save you a few bucks.  

  There is almost no doubt in my mind, that once you get to your new Utopia....Europe....you will find fault there too.  

Did I mention I liked it here.... lol
maybe you didn't read that. ;) :)

Yeah I'd like to live in Europe but I'd go nuts with every country's tendancey to ethnic cleanse their minorities, yet they get on their high horse and preach.


That's the only thing I really hate about certain stripes up here. They're bit clueless about America and I get singled out by those people of ignorance who only talk to me to wonder if Madison, Wisconsin the most 'progressive' university in America and one of the most liberal cities in the US, is the America seen in the movie Birth of a Nation  D. W. Griffith, with KKK roaming the streets and public lynchings of black people. I kid you not, first day in one class some girl asked me if Madison Wisconsin was this dangerous racist place. I'm too kind, said um no you're way off. I should of said yes, black people get hanged, KKK roam the streets and everyone walks around with machine guns.

hahaha somebody asks me again that question about one of the nicer places to live in the US again, I'll make it sound like hell and they'll probably believe me.


 

Uhhh....yea....you mentioned how much you liked it after you tore it limb from limb.

  maybe destroy this stupid concept of a Confederation which never work because its a root cause of everything that is politically wrong in Canada.
- Con Air program is a good example of what is wrong with Canada
- commit a crime in Manitoba come to BC and your record doesn't count. Total bullshit and don't scream provincial rights, provincial righters. Are we a country or an Umbrella country made up of individual countries, like a union? which is it?
- take national health care out of the hands of the provinces
- create a national mental health network
- people's rights trump silly provincial rights when it comes to common sense.

how is that tearing it apart?
Criticizing a country's political structure and efficiency is normal thought.
There's no PR
There's too much de-centralization
This country has a high frequency of political instability which is well known
This country can't address these issues without fixing the root cause of the instability
This takes political will of the people
Something that just isn't the psyche of Canadians, which is fine. It'll be interesting with my age comes to power 50% of the 18-35 group doesn't give a shit, doesn't vote, doesn't care about Constitutional or societal issues (arm chair quarterbacks). Apathy. (same for the states and everywhere else in the 'western world' its not just a Canadian thing)
If those 50% get tired of the political process then we've got a problem.




US has more problems than Canada, I'd rather live in Canada then the US. Every country has its flaws, but I wouldn't want to live anywhere else even if some other internationals I know believe this place is boring and wonder why I'd leave the US. Yet I get sad when I leave this country and happy when I return to it. I consider Canada home, I just wish some people had the same enthusiasm as I do and didn't dream of living in New York or some place.



 

I just wish some people had the same enthusiasm as I do and didn't dream of living in New York or some place.

  But it was ok for you to dream of being somewhere else ?

I'm not dreaming, dreaming of goals is different from longing for a place. I know where my home is. I can leave home and still call it home knowing where my home is. I have never gotten the 'this is home' feeling until I came to Vancouver. So I don't understand your question.
 

Anyone had enough of all the golf courses in Metro Van?  How about the city turn a couple of the ones in Van into homeless shelters.  Like anyone's going to be playing golf at 2010 time!

   

I believe in time golf courses will be turned into natural green spaces and housing.  For all to enjoy, not just the rich.  And there's not much natural about most golf courses.  Smell the grass, it ain't grass.

   
 

Golf courses are too far away from downtown.  If this wasn't the case I'm sure there would be a huge tent city.

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