[a href="vny!://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=95eeb707-76b6-4baf-a869-e4327959804d"]vny!://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=95eeb707-76b6-4baf-a869-e4327959804d[/a]
BC Ferries is reducing a number of services over the fall and winter months due to a significant reduction in traffic during the last few months. [/p]Thanksgiving and the December holiday season will not be included in the reductions. [/p]Those sailings that will be affected have handled the least amount of traffic in the past, a BC Ferries news release says.
[/p]The runs that will experience a reduction are Swartz Bay - Tsawwassen, Departure Bay - Horseshoe Bay and Langdale - Horseshoe Bay.[/p]"Given current economic uncertainties and reduced traffic, it is only prudent to respond with a more efficient operating strategy as we move into the slower winter period," COO Mike Corrigan said in a news release.[/p]Some 7 a.m. Sunday sailings from Tsawwassen and some 9 a.m. Sunday sailings from Swartz Bay- Some off-peak even hour sailings on the Swartz Bay-Tsawwassen route[/p]- Some 6:30 a.m. Sunday sailings from Departure Bay and some 8:30 a.m. Sunday sailings from Horseshoe Bay[/p]- Some off-peak 10:30 a.m. sailings from Departure Bay and some 12:30 p.m. sailings from Horseshoe Bay[/p]- Some 6:20 a.m. Sunday sailings from Langdale and some 7:20 a.m. Sunday sailings from Horseshoe Bay[/p]- Some 6:30 p.m. Saturday sailings from Langdale and some 7:25 p.m. Saturday sailings from Horseshoe Bay[/p]----------------------------------------------------[/p]wow. They build these two huge ships, now they just sit around and do nothing.
[/p]
Woohoo! My ferry reservations for the Thanksgiving long weekend are still valid.
I meant the ships, not the service. Translink or the 'Southcoast Regional Transit Authority' is doing the same thing, they're adding buses that are needed, then they are going to cut down on frequency times. That's their plan anyway.
They'll start charging $10.00 each time you use the loo on board.
Michel wrote:
Sportsdude wrote:
[A href="vny!://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=95eeb707-76b6-4baf-a869-e4327959804d"][/A]
[P style="FONT-STYLE: italic"]wow. They build these two huge ships, now they just sit around and do nothing.
Wrong, they do crappy and expensive service.
-------------------------------------
It is a business - perhaps you don't understand. If there are sailings with only 20 or so cars on them, such sailings should not happen.
It is a business - perhaps you don't understand. If there are sailings with only 20 or so cars on them, such sailings should not happen.
I don't know which ferries you're sailing, but every time I go over, there is almost always sailing waits.
The fact of the matter is, ridership is down. Ridership is down, because prices are up.....WAY up. Why not lower the prices and fill em up. The wages of B.C. ferry workers would imply they have all the money in the world. Since when does a cashier require to be paid $23 an hour. Give me a break !
Everyone I know would use the ferry (DID use the ferry) a lot more if it didn't cost half a morgage payment.
[div]
[/div]
....and unions ? (//vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/richedit/smileys/Happy/12.gif)
lol PC. I have a cousin in a sawmill that make almost $30.00 for sweeping the floors. Strong union. Too bad the mill has about 2 months left to go if they are lucky.
I worked union once, I will NEVER again!
Unions get rich because of high salaries ? That's what you're saying ?
No...that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that those costs get passed down to the consumer in one form or another. I'm saying if those kinds of wages were cut to reflect the value of the job (which would be about half)....then there would certainly be enough money to run the business effectively....no ?
A cashier on BC ferries is no more skilled than a cashier at Zellers...so why double the wages ? Do you think that's not part of what we're paying for ? I do.
I can't claim to have the depth of understanding that you do on the subject. I'm looking at it from a more simplistic view, I know. But the fact remains, that to pay those 'unbalanced' wages has to trickle down somewhere....and I'm thinking, it's trickling down to my wallet.
And I still maintain, that a cashier on BC ferries is no more valuable than a cashier at MacDonalds....nor is a cashier that has a degree any more valuable than a cashier who is grade 10 dropout. The job is the job....it's the same for all those who hold the position. In the unions efforts to 'defend rights', they've overlooked the simple fact, that it isn't anybody's 'right' to be paid inflated wages for a job requiring minimal skills. Some answers are found in simplicity.
"Well you're not that young........" (//vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/richedit/smileys/5.gif) I could hardly hear anything after that. (//vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/richedit/smileys/Happy/4.gif)
Michel wrote:
Van wrote:
[DIV style="FONT-STYLE: italic"]lol PC. I have a cousin in a sawmill that make almost $30.00 for sweeping the floors. Strong union. Too bad the mill has about 2 months left to go if they are lucky.
[DIV style="FONT-STYLE: italic"]
[DIV style="FONT-STYLE: italic"]I worked union once, I will NEVER again!
Why never ? Jealous ? What's your problem with people fighting for their rights ? Maybe you should become a Stalinist or invest in China, this would be your perfect society, no ? Open a McDonald or a WalMart ?
Jealous of a union? LOL! That is too funny! I am sure unions had their time and place. Where I worked, we could not get rid of the shi*ty workers to save the decent workers positions. So many whiners worrying and always expecting "what is coming to them", rather than the doughheads just doing their job!."the Company OWES me something" mentality got old fast. Nobody OWES you a bloody thing! Go pick the apples yourself instead of sitting back and waiting for the apple cart to fall into your lap!
Also, there is no accountability with unions. Everywhere i have been where unions were involved they did less work with more attitude.
You can chant all the pro-union propaganda you want, I will never change my mind about it. I was glad to work in a place where if a worker was a slacker, he got his ass booted out the door. To be honest, the benefits and pay scale were pretty much the same too for the qualified positions.
I am sure unions were necessary many years ago, nowadays, unions are great, at scaring away investment and common sense. BC in the 90s, the unions sucked the life out of this province.
anyways, my thoughts.
How about Jimmy Pattison replacing Save-On Foods stores with Price Smart stores! What do you think that is all about? Hint - compare wages at the two stores.
lol classic anti-union spew post 1980 Reaganism economics where he complained poor people on welfare were living it up, viciously attack the poor and weak, the modern conservative way. total bs. So said that a political ideology has spewed into just hate. When we think of conservatism now its Rush Limbaugh. lol
Company profits go down, blame the worker of course, not the over paid management who made the bad decisions. It's always the workers fault because you know they make all the decisions of course.
BC Ferries is in trouble because of the decision to build the stupid ships in Germany. BC Ferries could have built the ships in Victoria for much cheaper and would have helped BC shipbuilding industry. But Campbell rather help out his buddies in Germany than the citizens of British Columbia. So, of course Campbell was hopping mad when Harper said BC had to pay the huge import tax and refused to waive it. So the tax payers of BC now had to pay the bills on the giant cruise ships.
The giant import tax+ building the ships in Germany+ high cost of fuel = current BC Ferries problems.
All of those decisions aren't the workers problems, but the failure of management. So instead of only having to deal with high fuel costs, the government due to sloppy inept managing has a 4 headed monster. Then add on top of that Gordon gave himself a raise. And you've got problems, my friends.
lol classic pro-union spew (//vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/richedit/smileys/Happy/3.gif)
Van wrote:
Michel wrote:
Van wrote:
[div style="font-style: italic;"]lol PC. I have a cousin in a sawmill that make almost $30.00 for sweeping the floors. Strong union. Too bad the mill has about 2 months left to go if they are lucky.[/div] [div style="font-style: italic;"] [/div] [div style="font-style: italic;"]I worked union once, I will NEVER again![/div]
[em]Why never ? Jealous ? What's your problem with people fighting for their rights ? Maybe you should become a Stalinist or invest in China, this would be your perfect society, no ? Open a McDonald or a WalMart ?[/em][/p] Jealous of a union? LOL! That is too funny! I am sure unions had their time and place. Where I worked, we could not get rid of the shi*ty workers to save the decent workers positions. So many whiners worrying and always expecting "what is coming to them", rather than the doughheads just doing their job!."the Company OWES me something" mentality got old fast. Nobody OWES you a bloody thing! Go pick the apples yourself instead of sitting back and waiting for the apple cart to fall into your lap![/p] Also, there is no accountability with unions. Everywhere i have been where unions were involved they did less work with more attitude.[/p] You can chant all the pro-union propaganda you want, I will never change my mind about it. I was glad to work in a place where if a worker was a slacker, he got his ass booted out the door. To be honest, the benefits and pay scale were pretty much the same too for the qualified positions.[/p] I am sure unions were necessary many years ago, nowadays, unions are great, at scaring away investment and common sense. BC in the 90s, the unions sucked the life out of this province.[/p] anyways, my thoughts.
[/p]
-----------
funny, most union workers vote conservative. The ones that I ran into on my time on the Island were in fact conservative voters, the complainers as you say. The proud union workers I know back in the states are Republicans.
P.C. wrote:
lol classic pro-union spew (//vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/richedit/smileys/Happy/3.gif)
I don't want to live in the 1800's Industrial Age.
When you come out against a union on the basis of its exisitance saying "we don't need it anymore" you are cutting the safety net that you have as a non union worker. You can say 'well we have labour laws', labour laws can be wiped away in a minute with a pen. We have 'working standards' again, it can be wiped away with a few sentences on a piece of paper.
bust up the unions, go ahead. Then don't complain about working standards, women can be harrassed in the work place, who are they going to complain to, to seek justice? "Oh I'm sorry, we abolished those discrimination laws because the people believed we didn't need those laws anymore."
slippery slope
It is only 30km across - let's build a tunnel. English channel tunnel is 50km.
Sportsdude wrote:
funny, most union workers vote conservative. The ones that I ran into on my time on the Island were in fact conservative voters, the complainers as you say. The proud union workers I know back in the states are Republicans.
Funny is right...or weird? that is just weird....
Either way, I work for myself now and proudly will never work for a union again!(//vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/richedit/smileys/Happy/11.gif)
bust up the unions, go ahead. Then don't complain about working standards, women can be harrassed in the work place, who are they going to complain to, to seek justice? "Oh I'm sorry, we abolished those discrimination laws because the people believed we didn't need those laws anymore."
Unions don't make the laws. The unions could abolish their descrimination laws in a heartbeat. Labour Relations is there to do what is required. I don't need to pay a union to do something that someone else is already doing for nothing.
Labour Relations Board will disappear just as quickly. Then where will you go, the Human Rights Commission? The party in power can get rid of that too. You will have nothing, no voice to back you up and you'll get squashed by whomever you're going up against. Everyone has become complacent if they believe that those boards will always be there and at the same time believe those boards just were created on their own. How did those boards and commissions get created in the first place? I wonder who pushed for them... hmmm
Labour Relations Board will disappear just as quickly.
Why would it be inevitable that one follow the other ?
Sportsdude wrote:
funny, most union workers vote conservative. The ones that I ran into on my time on the Island were in fact conservative voters, the complainers as you say. The proud union workers I know back in the states are Republicans.
--
Federally, you are correct.
In provincial politics, the unions and trades usually vote NDP- suburbs (Burnaby, PoCo, New West, Surrey) and East Van have elected NDP MLAs.
My neighbours, for example, are a lot of union tradespeople, cops, fire fighters, hospital employees, prison guards, municipal workers...your typical bluecollar suburb...and we're elected the same NDP guy for years.
Michel wrote:
Van wrote:
To be honest, the benefits and pay scale were pretty much the same too for the qualified positions.
Only because your boss was scared that a union entered into the place. Typical corporatist tactict and naive people fell for it.
Oh yes that must have been it??
OR, the fact we needed qualified employees and had a hard time finding people with the right experience. Some companies are actually willing to pay whatever is necessary for skilled workers to join.
The beauty was, if you suck at your job, you can expect a permanent unpaid holiday.
Sportsdude wrote:
Labour Relations Board will disappear just as quickly. Then where will you go, the Human Rights Commission? The party in power can get rid of that too. You will have nothing, no voice to back you up and you'll get squashed by whomever you're going up against. Everyone has become complacent if they believe that those boards will always be there and at the same time believe those boards just were created on their own. How did those boards and commissions get created in the first place? I wonder who pushed for them... hmmm
You really have no clue do you?
Sportsdude wrote:
lol classic anti-union spew post 1980 Reaganism economics where he complained poor people on welfare were living it up, viciously attack the poor and weak, the modern conservative way. total bs. So said that a political ideology has spewed into just hate. When we think of conservatism now its Rush Limbaugh. lol
Company profits go down, blame the worker of course, not the over paid management who made the bad decisions. It's always the workers fault because you know they make all the decisions of course.
BC Ferries is in trouble because of the decision to build the stupid ships in Germany. BC Ferries could have built the ships in Victoria for much cheaper and would have helped BC shipbuilding industry. But Campbell rather help out his buddies in Germany than the citizens of British Columbia. So, of course Campbell was hopping mad when Harper said BC had to pay the huge import tax and refused to waive it. So the tax payers of BC now had to pay the bills on the giant cruise ships.
The giant import tax+ building the ships in Germany+ high cost of fuel = current BC Ferries problems.
All of those decisions aren't the workers problems, but the failure of management. So instead of only having to deal with high fuel costs, the government due to sloppy inept managing has a 4 headed monster. Then add on top of that Gordon gave himself a raise. And you've got problems, my friends.
LOL. Classic pro union spew. (could help it sorry SD)
Buzz.
The ships built in germany were brought in on budget because the unions there have a clue. They want the work and are willing to work at keeping them on time and in budget.They did overtime for nothing which was the equivalent of like 10 unpaid days to bring in the ships on time and on budget.
Do you know why the ferries were not built here?
The ferry corp tendered the ferries internationally, the local yards were 15% above the international bids, and months longer to build. Even with the import tax (which of course they should pay) overall in the long run its cheaper. On top of that they would not accept the inclusion of clauses that the ferries wanted for penalties, which would have helped hold the shipyards to task on keeping them on time and on budget. Part of what they would not accept was a fixed price on labour.. so that means if they were going to be behind time building them, they could eat they lower penalties they would accept, and just keep charging the taxpayers more and more on labour.
The german ships are top notch quality and built with parts availability and interchangability in mind. I work on ships, these are really good. Worth the money.
On top of that the ferries as they were tendering had the yards do some repair work for them. The work was done right, dont get me wrong the workers are good adn do the job, but they were done overbudget and late. That didnt do them any favours during the decion.
Look at the vessels built here before. Let me know if you find any done on time and on budget. The shipyards cry and the ferry corp pays more.
Thanks for the details Russ. I understood it was something like that, but didn't know enough of the details to bring it into the debate.
"But Harper failed to answer the part of the question about whether he would forgive the $80 million in import duties owed by the BC Ferry Services Inc. for three Super-C class ferries built in Germany under a 2004 contract. BC Ferries has been asking for the duties to be waived on the three ships, which [a href="vny!://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/westcoastnews/story.html?id=72ad82cd-4e4a-40c7-a66b-6665d38c7df6" rel="external"]may be docked[em][/em][/a] to save money on fuel, and had the support of outgoing finance minister David Emerson."
[a href="vny!://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/Federal-Politics/2008/09/30/HarperFerryTax/"]vny!://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/Federal-Politics/2008/09/30/HarperFerryTax/[/a]
"BC Ferries may reduce the number of sailings for its Super-C class vessels as part of a strategic approach to cut millions of dollars from its operating costs.
He said C-class vessels could take over Super-C routes to save money.[/p]"When you see traffic drop off, you don't need a larger ferry," Stefanson said Friday. "July was down. We were back up in August a bit, but September's been down as well." BC Ferries was expected to announce a plan next week to reduce operating costs. Stefanson could not provide details about the traffic reduction or how much money management aimed to save."[/p][a href="vny!://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/westcoastnews/story.html?id=72ad82cd-4e4a-40c7-a66b-6665d38c7df6"]vny!://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/westcoastnews/story.html?id=72ad82cd-4e4a-40c7-a66b-6665d38c7df6[/a]
waste of money.
Sportsdude wrote:
"But Harper failed to answer the part of the question about whether he would forgive the $80 million in import duties owed by the BC Ferry Services Inc. for three Super-C class ferries built in Germany under a 2004 contract. BC Ferries has been asking for the duties to be waived on the three ships, which [a href="vny!://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/westcoastnews/story.html?id=72ad82cd-4e4a-40c7-a66b-6665d38c7df6" rel="external"]may be docked[em][/em][/a] to save money on fuel, and had the support of outgoing finance minister David Emerson."
[a href="vny!://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/Federal-Politics/2008/09/30/HarperFerryTax/"]vny!://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/Federal-Politics/2008/09/30/HarperFerryTax/[/a]
"BC Ferries may reduce the number of sailings for its Super-C class vessels as part of a strategic approach to cut millions of dollars from its operating costs.
[p style="font-style: italic;"]He said C-class vessels could take over Super-C routes to save money.[/p][p style="font-style: italic;"]"When you see traffic drop off, you don't need a larger ferry," Stefanson said Friday. "July was down. We were back up in August a bit, but September's been down as well." BC Ferries was expected to announce a plan next week to reduce operating costs. Stefanson could not provide details about the traffic reduction or how much money management aimed to save."[/p][a href="vny!://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/westcoastnews/story.html?id=72ad82cd-4e4a-40c7-a66b-6665d38c7df6"]vny!://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/westcoastnews/story.html?id=72ad82cd-4e4a-40c7-a66b-6665d38c7df6[/a]
waste of money.
LOL, I was talking about the other side of it, not this.
You are right SD on teh fact that it costs more to run on certain routes. The bigger ferries are useful during the summers and when the routes are busy. From what I remember reading it was always planned to use the smaller vessels when the bigger ones werent required. The fuel was not planned for, nobody could know. It reduced all amounts of vehicle traffic, I do think it will return.
I do not think it was a waste of money SD. The ferries are built very well, probably better than we would built here. In the long run I think it will pay for itself.
"When you see traffic drop off, you don't need a larger ferry," Stefanson said Friday. "July was down. We were back up in August a bit, but September's been down as well."
Brilliant. I think if he checked his facts, he probably would have discovered that September traffic has logically been down since the beginning of time...... small detail related to kids returning to school.
I just learned that our neighbour, has to go to Van, Monday mornings for his job. The 6:30 am boat is one of the sailings being removed. Now he has to go Sunday nights....and to add to the over inflated rates, has to get a hotel. How frustrating for him......and expensive.
omg....it's making sense to me now. (//vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/richedit/smileys/Sad/9.gif)
P.C. wrote:
I just learned that our neighbour, has to go to Van, Monday mornings for his job. The 6:30 am boat is one of the sailings being removed. Now he has to go Sunday nights....and to add to the over inflated rates, has to get a hotel. How frustrating for him......and expensive.
Ask him how many other people usually are on that ferry.
A few times he has had morning sailing waits.....and on his returns, he almost always has a sailing wait and last Friday, he had two sailing waits.....and the same with tonight. He'd make a reservation, but he's never sure when he's going to get out of the office.
The last 3 trips over for us, we have had sailing waits as well.....except the last one, where we were literallly the 3rd to last car to get on.
I'm not really sure what he's talking about, because as far as I can see, it's the Sunday 6:30 am sailing that's being cut. I may have misunderstood. (???)
So now they've parked the first of the three "Hitler's Revenge" C-class ferries and are bringing The Queen of Cowichan back!