Two Canadians were among six protesters detained in China after they unfurled a banner on the Great Wall protesting China's presence in Tibet. [/p] The banner read "One World, One Dream, Free Tibet 2008." The official slogan for the games is "One World, One Dream." [/p] Non-Chinese members of Students for a Free Tibet carried out the act.[/p] The two Canadian detainees are Melanie Raoul and Sam Price, both of Vancouver. They have not been heard from since the arrest, said the group.[/p] "I am concerned, and looking forward to getting some information as are my parents. So, the sooner the better," said Olivia Claire, Price's sister in Vancouver.[/p] Price has done this sort of thing before. He was arrested in China in 2001 during a demonstration that coincided with a Team Canada trade trip.[/p] A Dept. of Foreign Affairs spokesman told The Canadian Press that the federal government is checking to see if Chinese authorities did arrest the pair and to request consular access if they were.[/p] The other four protesters were reportedly from the U.K. and U.S.[/p] To get around Chinese censors, the activists sent live video via cellphone camera of the banner's unfurling back to New York, where it was quickly posted to the Internet. This particular technique was first tried in April on the Chinese side of Mount Everest.[/p] "It's precedent-setting and in a way I hope we're making history not only for Tibetans but for the many, many groups that have been subjugated," said Lhadon Thetong, the group's leader.[/p] To try and reach International Olympics Committee president Jacques Rogge, she posted a letter to him on her blog, then made a video of her talking about the letter while she stands under the nose of a statue of Mao Tse-Tung, modern China's founder.[/p] She then called the IOC to tell them the video is there for the world to see, makes a video of the call and adds that to the blog. As a result, Lhadon Tethong got a rare informal meeting with an IOC staffer.[/p] She estimates about 20,000 people have checked out her postings from China. While she's been followed by police there, so far they haven't tried to arrest or stop her.[/p] "They can't stop the tide. There are cracks there with the Internet and with email access and even if they try to control, it's up to people like us to pry those open," Lhadon Tethong said.
A different protest occurred Monday, but one also aimed at getting the attention of Rogge, who is in China.[/p] Police in Beijing detained members of Reporters Without Borders who staged their own protest, accusing the government of failing to meet promises for greater media freedom. [/p] Wednesday marks exactly one year before the start of the 2008 Beijing Olympics. [/p] China views the Olympics as a good opportunity to burnish its image, while activists see it as a good opportunity to bring attention to what they see as the country's shortcomings.[/p] In the case of Tibet, Chinese troops have occupied the country since 1951. China claims Tibet is Chinese territory.[/p]
(//vny!://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20070807/160_ap_free_tibet_070807.jpg)[/p]In this video image released by Students for a Free Tibet, Canadian Tibet supporters Melanie Raoul, left, and Sam Price hang from ropes beside a protest banner they unfurled on the Great Wall of China in Mutianyu, north of Beijing on Tuesday, Aug 7, 2007. The banner reads: 'One World, One Dream, Free Tibet 2008.' (AP / Students for a Free Tibet
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Melanie Raoul is one of the Canadians detained in China.
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Sam Price, seen here in this undated file photo, is the other Canadian detained in China.
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[a href="vny!://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070807/china_protest_070807/20070807?hub=TopStories"]vny!://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070807/china_protest_070807/20070807?hub=TopStories[/a]
[hr style="width: 100%; height: 2px;"]where do I sign up? Commies don't scare me.[/p]
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[a href="vny!://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp5mAMrfvI8"]vny!://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp5mAMrfvI8[/a]
There's the video.
Personally I say all the democratic folks should have a giant huge protest right during the games in Beijing disrupt something. If China does something like brings in the tanks like Tiananmen Square it will be a million times worse then that because everyone will be watching and they'd cancel the olympics.
That is actually a very good idea SD. I wonder how the police will react..
They'd be forced not to act with violence like '89. Because they can't, not during the olympics it would be way too stupid to supress people when the whole world is watching and is down the street so to speak.
Then since the police and military can't act, you start having protests in Shanghai, Hong Kong all across the country.
If the police/military respond forcefully its the begining of the end of Communist China much like the begining of the end for the Soviet Union happened when Hungary had a student uprising and won, until the Soviets had to come in and restore communist rule.
This isn't '89. China cannot get away with another one of those, its too 'mainstream' so to speak.
If by 2030 China hasn't rid of the communists I'd be shocked. Yeah they've embraced capitalism but its still dictatorship communism. Give the middle class a decade before they start wanting things. clean food, Clean air, water, a sunny day in Shanghai, workers rights. China's a nuclear bomb waiting to go off its just not ready yet. You've got way too many factors in play.
The party can't fix corruption, that's going to be its downfall. The only way to stop corruption is with an independent judiciary. And the instant the party institutes that, the end of their rule. Its that simple.
You'd think everyone would know by now that peaceful protest is one of the most offensive sins of the present time.
yeah so true. Did you hear they might have to postpone events outside due to pollution. They were talking about running the events inside but I don't see how you can do a marathon inside an arena.
Where there's a will, or a gold medal, or national prestige, there's a way!
lol a marathon taking place in an indoor arena.
Either way something is going to go down at these games. The IOC is worried about pollution and I'm thinking of protests.
When the red dawn happens hopefully we still have our firearms!
If you think that's bad in China, look at the lengthening list of people detained at the USA-Canada border and denied entry to the USA simply because at some point in their lives they got a mugshot and fingerprints. This has only been in the past several months. CTV's "The Verdict" did a whole show on this.
The USA has now installed an even more sensitive and thorough security check at its borders and people are getting caught in it. It was said even if the charge that warranted a mugshot and fingerprints were dropped/discharged in court, no matter how long ago it was, the "fingerprint number" is in the system for life unless someone does an in-person request at the police station or RCMP detachment to have the file sealed, purged, whatever.
A few years ago when I was inside the Forbidden City, a chinese woman pull out a small homemade cardboard sign from under her shirt, as I was about to sign the big support the Olympic 08 sign. She was immediately jumped by three plain clothes guards/policemen and dragged thru the rough cobblestone plaza to behind one of the buildings at the perimeter. The third man was kicking and stumping on her all the way as she was being dragged by the other two. A white visitor lifted his camera to take a picture and before the camera reach his neck another plainclothes stepped infront of him and stopped him.
The point I am trying to make is that there are these plainclothes guards everywhere. If you are visiting Beijing take the time to read the big overhead warning sign while you are in line to get your passport stamped. Basically it warns you that your rights are left behind as you walk thru the gate.
You know 49er......I think that regardless of how noble a person's intentions are, there is something a tiny bit arrogant about taking up a cause IN another country.
but its human rights abuses. Should we not be concerned about Darfur then?
I'M not saying that we shouldn't be concerned. I'm not even suggesting that I have a better way. I'm just saying that you have to be aware of the laws of the land of where you are....and also that there may be better avenues to pursue the goal.
I remember feeling a little pissy at Paul McCartney spreading the word to not visit Canada because of the seal hunts. As much as I agreed with his plight (to some extent).....I thought he had no business in being the 'spokesperson' for Canadian issues.
Its all about exposing. People do these acts to make the world self aware of the bigger issue. They know they're going to be arrested. They also do this because if a local chinese citizen does the same thing they'll never be heard from again.
I suppose exposure for a cause is a good thing.....I still think there is an element of arrogance there.
I've always had mixed feelings about the 'exposure' of child labour in countries with totally different cultures than ours. With no regard for what it meant to take these jobs away.... when in fact they could have been the difference between supper....or no supper. We can't always impose what's right or wrong here, on the world. (I'm digressing, aren't I...lol)
child labour is illegal under international law. It must be stopped.
Sportsdude wrote:
child labour is illegal under international law. It must be stopped.
Start with attacking the western corporations that exploit and benefit from these illegal activities in developing countries
that's what people are doing. From Nike, to a coal mine in Africa to a sweat shop for wal mart somewhere in southeast asia.
It's not just in 3rd world countries that this is happening. Even in Canada and some parts of the USA where immigrants workers (and their children) work under appalling conditions that are not reported because they fear the consequences of speaking out loud.
I wish there was a site that do report on items that use illegal forced labor so I can make my decision to not buy them. Does anyone know of a site that does this?
child labour is illegal under international law. It must be stopped.
I know that SD.....not only is it illegal.....in our culture, it's immoral. I think you're missing some of the nuances in my comments. What I'm saying is, that although it must be stopped....there are some things that need to put in place FIRST. It may be well and good to come out thumping our chests that "WE STOPPED CHILD LABOUR" when in fact the result of that may be their road to starvation. Did 'we' think to supplement their families with the income that was relied upon for food, that 'we' have now taken away?
I think what I'm saying is that there is always a bigger picture....and great care needs to be exercised in where and how to start righting wrongs.
only people that I know expose these injustices are either unions or social activists. Governments usually turn a blind eye. We still have migrant workers to the kin of Mice and Men here.
P.C. wrote:
[em]child labour is illegal under international law. It must be stopped.[/em]
I know that SD.....not only is it illegal.....in our culture, it's immoral. I think you're missing some of the nuances in my comments. What I'm saying is, that although it must be stopped....there are some things that need to put in place FIRST. It may be well and good to come out thumping our chests that "WE STOPPED CHILD LABOUR" when in fact the result of that may be their road to starvation. Did 'we' think to supplement their families with the income that was relied upon for food, that 'we' have now taken away?
I think what I'm saying is that there is always a bigger picture....and great care needs to be exercised in where and how to start righting wrongs.
[hr style="width: 100%; height: 2px;"]Like put what in place? These corporations and governments don't listen. Heck just look at our two countries labour history. It took an all out revolt and mass riots to affect change. If not we still would be working 20hrs a day.
While most child labour is forced. Yes families sell their kids because they're poor. That's another problem to fix, corruption of the local governments. But governments around the world don't care. Do you really think China wants to see labour rights? heck no. Capitalism and profits come before humans. So you go to a factory in China and they're making nothing and working all day. While the owners of the factories are millionaires.
That's how and why unions started but we've exhausted that topic. :)
49er wrote: Start with attacking the western corporations that exploit and benefit from these illegal activities in developing countries
I agree 49er.....a good start. And yet we still need to give some thought as to how not to leave them high and dry.
leave who high and dry?
The families who would starve if we take away their income.
They wouldn't starve if the corporations paid their parents well, and then the local governments crack down and move the kids from the coal mines to the classroom. They're being paid less then a dollar a day in most places. All because of profits.
Like put what in place? These corporations and governments don't listen. Heck just look at our two countries labour history. It took an all out revolt and mass riots to affect change. If not we still would be working 20hrs a day.
While most child labour is forced. Yes families sell their kids because they're poor. That's another problem to fix, corruption of the local governments.
I have no idea....I don't even come close to suggesting I have answers. I'm trying to say that there is cause and effect.....and we have to pay attention to it all. Would you feel any sense of accomplishment or satisfaction in stopping child labour if the result was they all perished from starvation? I'm just questioning if those who ARE fighting some causes are aware that eliminating the symptoms isn't necessarily eliminating the problem.
Lise wrote:
It's not just in 3rd world countries that this is happening. Even in Canada and some parts of the USA where immigrants workers (and their children) work under appalling conditions that are not reported because they fear the consequences of speaking out loud.
I wish there was a site that do report on items that use illegal forced labor so I can make my decision to not buy them. Does anyone know of a site that does this?[/DIV]
Unless there is a union label you can bet that any garment was put together by women working by the piece in a sweat shop, whether its in India, Guam, or North America
people won't go poor if you put a stop to child labour because if you put a stop to child labour that means the will of the workers rights has dawned. That's what happened here. The will of the people for workers rights happened and people won the right to unionize and wages and job safety went up.
I disagree.....for two reasons at least. Firstly, you're assuming all places are like the USofA.....and secondly, this type of change doesn't happen overnight.
As long as greed and avarice rule the world, child labour will be a matter of fact (no matter how 'hidden' and disguised it may be).
I have a knack for saying things poorly. Upon re-reading my posts, it almost comes across that I'm saying child labour is OK....leave it alone. This is SO not what I'm saying at all. I'm trying (ever so badly) to say that an abrupt halt to it, without some groundwork, could....WOULD have devastating results.
It would be akin to having the ladder removed while you're on the top rung because it's been deemed dangerous....without putting into place an alternate, safe route to the ground.
I know this doesn't happen over night it takes many many years. But its like chipping away at a wall. It falls eventually. The US and Canada and Western Europe used to be like Southeast Asia, China, and Africa and it took many many years to defeat injustices but it happened. Its going to be tough to defeat this because globalization and capitalism more or less support the idea of 'cheap labour'. Just look at what has happened since Nafta. Everything moved to Mexico then mexico's labour start joining together and asking for better wages and then everything moved to China and India. Now even in cheap labour China where you can have factory workers making cars at 2 to 3 dollars a day. They're not the cheapest anymore. It will take hundreds of years but sooner or later if we as a society make a stand we can stop this.