As a Canadian living in California and posting often on DV, I have tried to provoke discussion of potentially contentious topics. One has been the viability of the theory of multiculturalism as a policy of governance ( as opposed to US theory of "melting pot").
For that, I was banned- I suspect under the catagory of inciting race hatred. So, in Canda, if you choose to speak to the isssue of immigration, those factors that create nationhood and those factors that undermine nationality, you are at risk of action from the thought police- in this case, the operators of Discover Vancouver.
At that site, any depravity is ok, provided you don't promote thinking.
Salinecanine wrote:
As a Canadian living in California and posting often on DV, I have tried to provoke discussion of potentially contentious topics. One has been the viability of the theory of multiculturalism as a policy of governance ( as opposed to US theory of "melting pot").
For that, I was banned- I suspect under the catagory of inciting race hatred. So, in Canda, if you choose to speak to the isssue of immigration, those factors that create nationhood and those factors that undermine nationality, you are at risk of action from the thought police- in this case, the operators of Discover Vancouver.
At that site, any depravity is ok, provided you don't promote thinking.
Thank god I won't have to look at your drivel over there anymore but to pass off your agenda as thinking is a heinous insult to any critical thinker. Hey Don Quijote you seem to spend an obssessive amount of energy lurking around trying to avoid your imaginary foe... uh what was it? Right, the uh... thought police....
in your eyes the thought police is anyone who disagrees with your Ultra-Nationalistic rhetoric. You are a part of the Savage Nation, like your hero that pandering reactionary Michel Savage, who is merely the Dr Laura of political pundits.
Well, thank you for the vitriolic bit of ad hominem attack from my fellow patriot. At least on this site it can be said.
I don't agree with all that ultra right wingers such as Savage say. But I am not bambozzled by the smug and oh so subtle brain washing going on north of the border.
Again, thank you for showing who the tolerant are.
As a Canadian living in California and posting often on DV, I have tried to provoke discussion of potentially contentious topics. One has been the viability of the theory of multiculturalism as a policy of governance ( as opposed to US theory of "melting pot").
For that, I was banned- I suspect under the catagory of inciting race hatred. So, in Canda, if you choose to speak to the isssue of immigration, those factors that create nationhood and those factors that undermine nationality, you are at risk of action from the thought police- in this case, the operators of Discover Vancouver.
I think your conclusion that deleting such topics, which do in fact 'incite racial hatred' (or at the very least incite racially hateful comments), from a Vancouver forum, is a huge leap to sum up all of Canada as members of the 'thought police' brigade.
I'm sure if someone took up your debate in a manner that was in fact 'debating' such issues, you probably would have a different experience. But that's rarely the case. I think I would say....on a forum full of people that you are fully aware are not up for such discussions, might be considered unwise....not "In Canada there is no such thing as free speech".
I wonder if there are forums that encourage such topics for more serious discussion.
Anyways, to suggest that free speech doesn't exist because the owners of a Vancouver Forum choose to not tolerate the 'deterioration' of some of these topics seems like an unreasonable reaction to me.
Oh yea......I forgot to add that these forums are moderated by your peers.....not government officials.
Good points PC. I appreciate your comments and largely agree.
If anyone knows a site that can provide serious discussion of the socio-politico challenges faced by Canada (with a multicultural philosophy of development) I would appreciate hearing about it.
I hope you find something. It's frustrating when you want to discuss something, but end up with your ideas ridiculed instead of debated. I'll keep my eyes open.
TIGHTROPE IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF A FORUM WHERE YOU CAN INSULT A BLACK PERSON BY CALLING HIM A n***er BUT THE MENTION OF YOU SWEARING GETS YOU BANNED. IM BANNED FROM THERE AS WELL. IN FACT THE ONLY SITE THAT HAS ALLOWED TO KEEP ME ON IS THIS SITE. SO GOOD LUCK TO FREE SPEECH AND AS FOR THE OTHERS YOU CAN GO AND TAKE A FLYING f*ck!!!!!!! NICE TO SEE SALINE AGREEING WITH ME AND TO A DEGREE P.C. . CHEERS TO THE LIBERATORS OF FREE SPEECH!!!!!!
salinecanine wrote:
Good points PC. I appreciate your comments and largely agree.
If anyone knows a site that can provide serious discussion of the socio-politico challenges faced by Canada (with a multicultural philosophy of development) I would appreciate hearing about it.
This one looks like your ilk, try them, with any luck you might find some buddies and thus keep the filth away from impressionable kids.
[A href="vny!://www.heritagefront.com/faq/"]vny!://www.heritagefront.com/faq/[/A]
Hi maestro. More than a tad bitter, aren't ye?
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"]Jim Crow: I went to the site that you suggested. Of course, that is not my kind of site.[SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"] [/SPAN]The suggestion again reflects my concern. Whenever anyone wishes to discuss multiculturalism they are, as you insinuate, automatically proclaimed racist, Nazi or whatever fill in the blank pejorative.
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[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"]I have embraced multiculturalism for twelve years married to a Punjabi woman. I have been "enriched" by the experience of diverse cultures. Nor am I stranger to other cultures in Canada, including many stints at Dr Sun Yat[SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"] [/SPAN]Sen Gardens, drinking beer with Haida colleagues in the Charlottes and teaching the benefits and virtues of multiculturalism to First Nations, Koreans, Chinese, and Peruvians for over a decade. I feel I can easily voice a well versed and well earned opinion of the positives of multiculturalism.
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[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"]But when I speak to multiculturalism, I do so in regard to the centripetal and centrifugal forces that create and maintain nationhood, or conversely undermine and destroy. The [?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /][st1:country-region w:st="on"][st1:place w:st="on"]USA[/st1:place][/st1:country-region] with its founding documents, capitalist economic philosophy, and general sense of patriotism provide clear gravitational forces that ensure a degree of unity.[SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"] [/SPAN]I suspect [st1:country-region w:st="on"][st1:place w:st="on"]Canada[/st1:place][/st1:country-region], without founding documents and with a history of compromises ( not that there is something wrong with any specific compromise) does not have the same glue binding it to nationhood. Every decade the Quebecois take a stab at that notion.
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[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"]And so, I question the entire multicultural policy of development. Not because it has no virtue. It does and I have benefited. But what flows from the policy is evil. When free men can no longer speak without being labeled racist or suffer state sanctions, that is evil. When an entire society is sanitized and overseen by government for "improper thoughts", that is evil. If you actually believe this is NOT happening in [st1:country-region w:st="on"][st1:place w:st="on"]Canada[/st1:place][/st1:country-region], particularly since the Constitution Act (1982),[SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"] [/SPAN]you deserve what you get. [SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"] [/SPAN]But worse, it is the end of the glue that holds a nation together.[SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"] [/SPAN]Unless, of course, you want something other than a nation.
Gordo...I visited your suggested site...sorry not my bag- don't think jokes about race are funny and dont subscribe to racist philosophy.
BUT....I DO DEFEND THEIR RIGHT TO BE THERE......interestingly...in the USA.
You seem to be annoyed by generalizations, and yet your conclusions are full of them.
Frankly your comments are sounding more and more like a cleverly disguised 'U.S. is better than Canada' thread. Using bigger words doesn't make it any less so. I'm not surprised that it's not being embraced the way you're hoping.
Just my 2 cents.
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"]I must confess, after recently immigrating from Canada to Australia and then back to San Francisco, in my experience ( and, it is only this one man's experience) there is a palpable sense of increased freedom here in the USA, even with its mistakes, compared with the other two jurisdictions. Yes, I am sure there are just as many experiences to the contrary. And, yes this is a generalization, only because of the limitations of the site. So, yes...I prefer the [?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /][st1:country-region w:st="on"][st1:place w:st="on"]United States[/st1:place][/st1:country-region] for a sense of personal freedom. After living in [st1:country-region w:st="on"][st1:place w:st="on"]Canada[/st1:place][/st1:country-region] for over fifty years I have experienced a decline in spontaneity and a sense that one can speak their mind without consequence.
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[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"]As for generalizations, the philosophy of multicultural development is a generalization and any discussion could and should involve any of many different aspects. I don't see how you can begin to have a specific discussion until the R card is put aside. Currently, discussing multiculturalism v. melting pot is simply not on in [st1:country-region w:st="on"][st1:place w:st="on"]Canada[/st1:place][/st1:country-region]. The discussion is over, unless you want to go out on a limb, and get specific. And for that, you may well be vilified.
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /][o:p] [/o:p]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"]As for my perspective being embraced, I suspect not, and that is not my intent. I simply wish to bring forward my thoughts on what it is that I[SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"] [/SPAN]believe creates a strong nation. Immigrants to be sure.[SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"] [/SPAN]Common language, common culture absolutely. Blindly implementing a multicultural policy that creates a larger society of discrete communities may , ultimately, not be a good policy on a number of accounts.
.....and I have to confess that I'm not really sure I understand what you're saying. I'm basically responding to a few 'catch phrases' that always get me riled.....lol
Such as....Canada is this or that.....US is this or that.......basing a comment like 'Free Speech in Canada-an oxymoron', on being shut down in a Vancouver Forum that is full of people that are not representative of the minds of many. (that's as delicately as I can think of to put it, but you get my drift)
I don't think your thoughts are what is being shut down there. I think it's the types of responses that the subject seems to attract. I'm probably not making my point very clearly....I just don't believe that it's your freedom of speech that's being squashed.
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"]Thank you for taking the time to feedback, PC. I appreciate that and your civility. [SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"] [/SPAN]Whether or not free speech is[SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"] [/SPAN]compromised in [?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /][st1:country-region w:st="on"][st1:place w:st="on"]Canada[/st1:place][/st1:country-region] is, of course, debatable- with me taking one perspective. Time will tell, I suppose. Perhaps it is just all that rain in [st1:City w:st="on"][st1:place w:st="on"]Vancouver[/st1:place][/st1:City]. When I was a school board Chair, the "in joke" in every early Spring was to keep your head down and don't provoke the parents/teachers or unions. Everyone was ready to fight because of the rain, rain and more rain. Once the sun came out, everything changed.
I don't post that often, so I'm not looking to get into a discussion. I just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth on this subject.
Every culture we have in Canada brings unique and valuable contributions to our nation and we are all better for it. I believe strongly in immigration and the gifts immigrants bring with them such as skills, food, music, traditions, etc.
I think that [STRIKE]all[/STRIKE] most Canadians, regardless of their ethnic background, accept different cultures and what they bring to the table.
I also think that lack of a defined 'Canadian Identity' allowed or caused politicians and their underlings to believe we needed guidance when common sense and human nature would normally prevail.
I am neither left wing or right wing, I just don't believe you can legislate multicultualism. That begins with us and what we teach our children. When schools don't acknowledge one religions celebrations because it might offend another, it's gone too far. Kids should be ( and they were ) allowed to experience all cultural celebrations, they are richer, better educated and have far more understanding of what their friends and different cultures are all about.
There are so many fantastic things about Canada and the different fabrics of our society, that we WANT to experience them. Legislating them tends to isolate them rather than meld them.
Cheers[/DIV]
Well said and I entirely agree with you Sawdust. Thanks for taking the time to contribute meaningfully.
Everyone was ready to fight because of the rain, rain and more rain. Once the sun came out, everything changed.
What are you talking about ? It only rained twice here last week. Three days the first time and four days the second time. [img style="CURSOR: pointer" onclick=url(this.src); src="vny!://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/froehlich/a035.gif" border=0]
Now PC, I realize that into every PC and little bullshit must fall. [DIV id=smile_editor][img class=buttons onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#C6D3EF'; this.style.border='1px solid #3169C6'; " title="Insert emoticons" style="BORDER-RIGHT: #3169c6 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #3169c6 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #3169c6 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #3169c6 1px solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c6d3ef" onclick="FormatText('editor', 'smile', '')" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor=''; this.style.border='1px solid #EFEBEF';" src="vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/richedit/buttons/insertsmile.gif" align=absMiddle border=0][/DIV]
Hey saline, are you my old DV friend Richard under a different handle? About a couple of weeks ago, both Richard and Richards --- who were always being confused by many readers or posters --- simultaneously disappeared. Both R's were intelligent, mature and fair-minded persons. If they got banned for the same reasons for which you say you were banned, then free speech is indeed in a bad way. People on DV post filth, mockery, hate, and I underwent a "cyber-lynching" and defamation. I hope my career on Discover Seattle is different.