The Supreme Court of Canada needs to reverse it's 2002 decision that allowed inmates the right to vote in federal elections. Prisoners should not have a say in who gets sent to Ottawa to make decisions affecting free, law-abiding citizens in Canada.
Were they actually not allowed to vote pre-2002?
It was a biased ploy set up by the then Federal Liberal gov't of Canada in 2002, to pass this bill to the SCC for approval, before the next election was held.
The Liberals knew, that if prisoners were given right to vote, the prisoners would always vote for political parties who favour luxurious situations for inmates in federal penitenciaries.
Thanks,that's my 2cents. :)
TheAngel wrote:
The Supreme Court of Canada needs to reverse it's 2002 decision that allowed inmates the right to vote in federal elections. Prisoners should not have a say in who gets sent to Ottawa to make decisions affecting free, law-abiding citizens in Canada.
Rights shouldn't be granted to people by means of the government picking and choosing who gets them. This completely contradicts the concept of rights. if you are a citizen, you should get rights. Now landed immigrants shouldn;t have any rights and we should be able to do whatever we want to them.
TheAngel wrote:
It was a biased ploy set up by the then Federal Liberal gov't of Canada in 2002, to pass this bill to the SCC for approval, before the next election was held.
The Liberals knew, that if prisoners were given right to vote, the prisoners would always vote for political parties who favour luxurious situations for inmates in federal penitenciaries.
LOL.
And the government could just tell every 20-30 year old that they will buy them cars if they vote for them. Politics simply doesn't work like that. Your premise is skewed. Rights are granted to all citizens. The government works for us.
TheAngel wrote:
Yup, so it seems.
I think it isn't right that those who have lost their rights to be members of a free civil society, should have a say on who gets sent to Ottawa to make decisions... seems wrong to me.
When did they LOSE their rights?
gunta0 wrote:
TheAngel wrote:
It was a biased ploy set up by the then Federal Liberal gov't of Canada in 2002, to pass this bill to the SCC for approval, before the next election was held.
The Liberals knew, that if prisoners were given right to vote, the prisoners would always vote for political parties who favour luxurious situations for inmates in federal penitenciaries.[/p] [/p] LOL.[/p] [/p] And the government could just tell every 20-30 year old that they will buy them cars if they vote for them. Politics simply doesn't work like that. Your premise is skewed. [span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 0);"]Rights are granted to all citizens. The government works for us.[/span]
^^ hear, hear
[/p]
[span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"] gunta0 wrote:[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"][span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"]TheAngel wrote:[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"][span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"]The Supreme Court of Canada needs to reverse it's 2002 decision that allowed inmates the right to vote in federal elections. Prisoners should not have a say in who gets sent to Ottawa to make decisions affecting free, law-abiding citizens in Canada. [/span][br style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"] [div style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"] [/div] [div style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"] [/div] [span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"]Rights shouldn't be granted to people by means of the government picking and choosing who gets them. This completely contradicts the concept of rights. if you are a citizen, you should get rights. Now landed immigrants shouldn;t have any rights and we should be able to do whatever we want to them.[/span]
Prisoners have been removed from society because they lost their rights.
[span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"] gunta0 wrote:[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"][p style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"]TheAngel wrote:
Yup, so it seems.
I think it isn't right that those who have lost their rights to be members of a free civil society, should have a say on who gets sent to Ottawa to make decisions... seems wrong to me.
[/p]
[span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"]When did they LOSE their rights?
[/span][/p]
[span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"][/span][/p]When they broke the law.[span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"]
[/span][/p]
[span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"][/span][/p][span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"][/span]
[/p]
[span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"] don't wrote:[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"][span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"] gunta0 wrote:[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"][p style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"]TheAngel wrote:
It was a biased ploy set up by the then Federal Liberal gov't of Canada in 2002, to pass this bill to the SCC for approval, before the next election was held.
The Liberals knew, that if prisoners were given right to vote, the prisoners would always vote for political parties who favour luxurious situations for inmates in federal penitenciaries.[/p] [p style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"] [/p] [p style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"]LOL.[/p] [p style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"]
[/p] [span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"]And the government could just tell every 20-30 year old that they will buy them cars if they vote for them. Politics simply doesn't work like that. Your premise is skewed. [/span][span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 0); font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"]Rights are granted to all citizens. The government works for us.[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"][br style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"][br style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"][span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"]^^ hear, hear[/span]
Are prisoner's really citizens? Do they live a civil life in a civil society?
[/p]
Would you really want someone like Robert Picton having a say in the electoral system?
You're right weird al....they have always been allowed to vote. [FONT face=Times]In October 2002, the Supreme Court of Canada rejected a law forbidding inmates in federal prisons from voting. The court decided "the right to vote lies at the heart of democracy in Canada."[/FONT]
I also agree that they forfiet that right when they chose to not live within the confines of a civilized society.
*lol* maybe i read that wrong.
P.C., it's nice to see we agree......
[span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]The Prisoners, are living the good and easy life.[/span][br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]They don't have to work, everything gets handed to them. It's simple really.[/span][br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]Think of the heinous crimes they committed?[/span][br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]If they get out, they'll commit more crimes because hey, [/span][span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]life in prison - it ain't that bad.[/span][br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255); font-style: italic;"][span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255); font-style: italic;"]They can vote for the Liberals who give them TV's and nice things.[/span][br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]
wow!
Ms TheAngel, you scare me :(
[span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]I must be doing something 'right' then.
[/span]
you must be :(
Off topic.
Don't, If you could include in your contributions to this thread reasons and arguments why you think prisoners should get a vote in the elections, well that would be on-topic.
ok :(
I feel.... that if you're in prison, you loose the right to do most things. One of those rights is the right to vote. Why should a prisoner have that right when most immigrants don't even have that luxury?
Hmmmm.
Every human being is an onion.
It's always fascinating to see a person unfold.
Sometimes it hurts but it's the only way to truly know someone rather than simply being entranced by their brightly painted shell. Ok, I just hurt myself with too many mixed metaphors :(
Dang it, tenk! My eyes hurt just reading that! Spill it out, man. Whatcha tryin' to say?
[span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"] tenkani wrote:[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"][div style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"]Hmmmm.[/div] [div style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"]Every human being is an onion.[/div] [div style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"]It's always fascinating to see a person unfold.[/div] [span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"]Sometimes it hurts but it's the only way to truly know someone rather than simply being entranced by their brightly painted shell. Ok, I just hurt myself with too many mixed metaphors :([/span]
[span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]Gee, [/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]That hurted for about 2 split seconds, but then I got over it.[/span]
[span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"] Lise wrote:[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"][span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"]I feel.... that if you're in prison, you loose the right to do most things. One of those rights is the right to vote. Why should a prisoner have that right when most immigrants don't even have that luxury?[/span]
I feel the same. Why should prisoners have the same rights as we do?
Some rights should be revoked because you commit the crime and do not deserve to vote. Once you've serve your time, then you should be able to vote.
That is how I see it too.
So, prisoners have always had the right to vote, and a bill seeking to remove that right was rejected. Good! Regardless of what anyone may think of them, they are still citizens, after all, aren't they? If they are no longer citizens, what other rights should be taken from them? Why stop at the right to vote? After all, why should we spend our hard-earned tax dollars on anything better than dog food for these people who have lost the right to be considered as members of society?
But that's right, they are still members of society after all. And they're coming back, too. I think we would all be better off if we don't brutalize them too much while they're sequestered. Some of them are people who made extremely bad decisions (not mistakes, please, I'm really not a bleeding heart after all), at times when they were ill-equipped to make any sort of good decisions at all.
I'm not going to get into a rant here (I hope), but a lot of people in prison now are going to get out, and they're not going to go back in. There is some deterrence to being locked up, even with a tv set.
As for drug addicts and how they should all be rounded up and shot or whatever, I'm so tired of hearing this. It's so easy to get runaways hooked on heroin without their knowing it. I knew a guy who used to do this. I assume he's no longer among us, however. Doesn't take long to convert another true believer to your cause. I'm not saying everybody gets hooked on drugs this way, and I've never been addicted to anything either, except grass, tobacco and booze :) .
I've never been locked up either, except for a few hours at a time. My point is, these people don't lose their citizenship while guests of the Crown. I know some ex-cons - everybody does. Some of them f*cked up egregiously,paid the price, and rejoined (or joined) tthe mainstream. Some of them are legitimate businessmen now, and employers in their own right. Notwithstanding the occasional Pickton or Olson, they're not animals. They're not idiots[/DIV]
True enough I suppose, weird al. I guess we have a tendancy to lump them all into one type of people. And to say they have not lost their citizenship is a really good point.
But once they land themselves in prison, have they not lost their rights to their freedoms ? They no longer have the right to roam free amongst the rest of society so why would they be free to be a part of the decision making for them?
P.C. wrote:
They no longer have the right to roam free amongst the rest of society so why would they be free to be a part of the decision making for them?
Well, now I'm guessing the system has been in place for a long time, and it's only recently that someone decided, "hey, these people are pukes, why should they be allowed to vote? Why should they have anything." But I don't think society is falling apart because we're coddling prisoners, or not taking enough away from them: I think we're losing our way because there is so little certainty of being incarcerated anymore. I'm a firm believer in the old "do the crime, do the time" mantra.
As for violent crime of any sort, I want to see maximum deterrence in the form of maximum penalties. I really believe that we need more prisons so that violent offenders can be incarcerated for the full term of the sentence. (Now I've probably got some people thinking I'm a bleeding heart, and others thinking I'm an authoritarian.)
I think that certainty of punishment is a true deterrent, and we don't have anything like that anymore. By the way, I knew a guy who killed his roommate in a drunken fight, probably over who got the last beer. He didn't really remember that much about it. But when he got out, after doing significant time, guess what? He didn't drink anymore! And he was a solid, hardworking taxpaying citizen. He was still a bit of a puke though.
I think what we have to do is to actually enforce the laws that we have. We've fallen so far away from that, it's totally absurd. I don't think we have to dream up new ways to take long-established rights away from the few people who are actually incarcerated. We have to incarcerate more people. If that makes for a mini economic boomlet in terms of construction and staffing, so be it.
Agree with the above, plus get rid of most legislation concerning victimless crimes.
Take the potheads and whatnot out of prison and replace them with murderers.
If someone already said this, sorry, I didn't bother to read most of this thread because I'm a lazy f*ck.
(Now I've probably got some people thinking I'm a bleeding heart, and others thinking I'm an authoritarian.)
Never considered either, weird al.....it's your opinion and one that sounds like you've actually given some thought.
It's something I've not given a lot of thought. I used to work for the Returning Office during the elections, and it was always the dreaded polling station to draw.
I guess I don't think of it as an extension of their punishment as much as I think of it as a natural consequence. I have to admit, I never knew until then that they WERE allowed to vote, and I remember being quite surprised.....it didn't seem logical to me.
As for the rest of your comments I agree.....fully. A slap on the wrist is seldom a deterrent.
I like Frank Zappa's line re 1st offence:
"That was Joe's first brush with the law...One of our counselors gave him a doughnut and told him to stick closer to church-related social activities."
LOOOL!
Loves me some Zappa! :)
He taught me that the white zone is for loading and unloading only.
If you need to load or unload, well, you should use the white zone!
I wonder where Joe is now. [img style="CURSOR: pointer" onclick=url(this.src); src="vny!://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/more/bigs/c008.gif" border=0]
Last I heard he was hanging out in his garage practicing with his guitar.
You'ld think he had it down by now.
I actauly think that prison is not supposed to be a place of rights and privileges. Yes they have 'civil rights', we as a country and a society afford them that. What I DO NOT agree with is that they get the right to vote on issues outside. They are incarcerated because they could not meet the bare minimul civil requirements and were convicted by the rules and judgement of their peers. So they should not get the priviledge of voting on who is in charge of the country, affecting what their rights in prison are. They lost that privilege when 12 of their citizens peers put them there.
I am also of the opinion that prison is not meant to be a free ride. We spend on average 60-100k a year on EACH person in prison, Im mean, wtf? The average canadian makes what 30-35k? How does this equate?
The simple answer is it doesnt. They should be made to work and produce things, being trained in certain fields for reintegration into society. Have them fix cars that the labour costs are too high for the average shop, use a lathe.. etc. If you are a convicted for life.. why should they get teh right to take school courses paid by me if they are never going to use it?
The person is in prison for a reason. We should make a prison what it was meant to be.. a punishment.
He taught me that the white zone is for loading and unloading only.
Sounds like you know this ineffable work quite well, tenk. Do you know the bit where they're singing in German?
[span style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;"] weird al wrote:[/span][br style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;"][br style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;"][span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 0); font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;"]As for violent crime of any sort, I want to see maximum deterrence in the form of maximum penalties.[/span][span style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;"] I really believe that we need more prisons so that violent offenders can be incarcerated for the full term of the sentence. (Now I've probably got some people thinking I'm a bleeding heart, and others thinking I'm an authoritarian.)[/span] [div style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;"] [/div][div style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;"] [/div] [span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 0); font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;"]I think what we have to do is to actually enforce the laws that we have[/span][span style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;"]. We've fallen so far away from that, it's totally absurd. I don't think we have to dream up new ways to take long-established rights away from the few people who are actually incarcerated. We have to incarcerate more people. If that makes for a mini economic boomlet in terms of construction and staffing, so be it.
[span style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;"]
[/span][/span][span style="color: rgb(64, 127, 0); font-weight: bold;"]I really like what you said here. Very good points. [/span] [span style="color: rgb(64, 127, 0);"]Thank you for your opinions![/span][span style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;"]
[/b][/span]
[span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"] tenkani wrote:[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"][div style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"]Agree with the above, plus get rid of most legislation concerning victimless crimes.[/div] [div style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"]Take the potheads and whatnot out of prison and replace them with murderers.[/div] [div style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"]If someone already said this, sorry, I didn't bother to read most of this thread because I'm a lazy f*ck.[/div]
Also agree.. (with taking the potheads and whatnot out of prison and replacing them with murderers)
[span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"] Russ wrote:[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"][div style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic; background-color: rgb(192, 255, 128);"]I actauly think that prison is not supposed to be a place of rights and privileges. Yes they have 'civil rights', we as a country and a society afford them that. What I DO NOT agree with is that they get the right to vote on issues outside. They are incarcerated because they could not meet the bare minimul civil requirements and were convicted by the rules and judgement of their peers. So they should not get the priviledge of voting on who is in charge of the country, affecting what their rights in prison are. They lost that privilege when 12 of their citizens peers put them there.[/div] [div style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"] [/div] [div style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"]I am also of the opinion that prison is not meant to be a free ride. We spend on average 60-100k a year on EACH person in prison, Im mean, wtf? The average canadian makes what 30-35k? How does this equate? [/div] [div style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"]The simple answer is it doesnt. They should be made to work and produce things, being trained in certain fields for reintegration into society. Have them fix cars that the labour costs are too high for the average shop, use a lathe.. etc. If you are a convicted for life.. why should they get teh right to take school courses paid by me if they are never going to use it? [/div] [div style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"] [/div] [span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"]The person is in prison for a reason. We should make a prison what it was meant to be.. a punishment.[/span]
[br style="color: rgb(96, 191, 0);"][br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255); font-weight: bold;"][span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255); font-weight: bold;"]Russ, [/span][br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255); font-weight: bold;"][br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255); font-weight: bold;"][span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255); font-weight: bold;"]Could not have said this better myself!! Thank you for your comments!!!!!!!!! =)[/span]