Prenuptial agreement, yes or no, pros and cons, is it working or a lawyer can get rid of it ?
Also, would you feel insulted if your BF/GF asked you to sign a prenup ?
Replyers please specify sex if possible.
No. *scratches head* Could a boob job be in the prenup? See, I had one done and my fiance just loves my new boobs and I'm like totally totally afraid (for my life actually) that he WANTS them and WANT a part of them! OMF*ckingGAWD, I'm scared. Please help!
Oh, P.S. Only females can have boob jobs for now, right?
Prenups are great for someone who has prior assets going into the marriage and should the marriage end they are protected especially if they have family heirlooms (i.e., the Gustav Stickey chair great-uncle left you) or property (i.e., the cottage on Gabriola Island that grandma left you). They also are good if one has suspect behavior problems and if the marriage ends because of those problems one is protected from the community property split law and alimony to the spouse (i.e., like Nicole Kidman won't have to pay Keith Urban alimony or lose any of her stuff if they split due to him relapsing on his drug and alcohol addiction). However when children are involved that's a tricky situation so it is best to make sure you have a very good divorce lawyer that explains what is involved and to reassure you and your spouse-to-be it is not something to be insulted or worried about.
purelife wrote:
No. *scratches head* Could a boob job be in the prenup? See, I had one done and my fiance just loves my new boobs and I'm like totally totally afraid (for my life actually) that he WANTS them and WANT a part of them! OMF*ckingGAWD, I'm scared. Please help!
If it was me I'll let you have custody as long as I've visitation rights
Any prenup can be invalidated. Having one is better than not having one, but don't rely upon it to save the day. Suggest it as a way of making sure that no one gets shorted or taken advantage of if a divorce occurrs. But any lawyer can make a good case why it shouldn't be valid and any judge can dismiss it in part or in whole if he or she decides that it "goes against the public good" or is "unfair to the parties as a whole".
True TB. I have heard about prenups being overuled. But not always, a prenup is always good for things you have prior. AFTER you are married things should be divided equally.
But thats JMHO.
Personally, I think pre-nups for those who are filthy rich with much to lose if they go through a divorce later on. And I'm thinking of many celebrities these day. (think Paul McCartner and his recent divorce, no pre-nups and really messy process)
I don't think pre-nups for the normal citizens but that's up to the individual's choice. For myself, I would feel pretty darn insulted if my fiancee were to ask for a pre-nup agreement. I'm more liable to think why he's asking in the first place and is marrying me for money or love. That's just me.
The whole concept of a prenup, sounds like a precaution one would take in the event they weren't prepared to invest fully in the marriage. I have no interest in taking something that isn't mine, but to enter into a marriage by preparing for it's failure just doesn't seem right.
I would have no problem signing a prenup, for all the things it's supposed to do. But I would
have a problem marrying someone who felt they needed to protect themselves from me.
Thank you all for your useful replies. Please feel free to post more if any.
Any guy who is stupid enough to get married without a prenup deserves everything he gets. Which is usually taken to the cleaners.
ripper.....Should a guy sign a prenup if he is marrying a woman with greater assets than him ?
Hell no.
[img style="CURSOR: pointer" onclick=url(this.src); src="vny!://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/more/bigs/c008.gif" border=0] I see...........Nuff said
P.C. please let me clarify. What i said about the man protecting himself also applies to the woman.
Your clarification has confused me....(although that's not extremely hard to do) So, you WOULD sign a prenup ?
Yes i would. I was only joking when i said "hell no".
Interesting.
Not me.
I guess it all boils down to where you place your faith. If contracts were the deciding factor as to whether a marriage was to take place, I wonder why a person wouldn't spend as much energy ensuring the marriage contract remains intact as they would the 'back-up' contract.
Another question. How valid is a prenup, if it's the prenupper who breaks the marriage contract.
In a marriage contract, there are no guarentees. People change and decide they want to move on. With a prenup, you at least have a chance of protecting yourself from golddiggers and midlife crisis.
With a prenup, you at least have a chance of protecting yourself from golddiggers and midlife crisis.
Your mind is so set to meeting these golddiggers and being in relationships that gives you midlife crisis when you keep thinking about "protecting your assets." I would NEVER want to live a life on the edge hoping that the man in front of me is not a gold digger. What kind of life would you have to expect the worst from a relationship? To expect that your bank accounts are going to be drained? If it happens too often, don't you think that Life is trying to tell you something? I would be wasting too much energy protecting myself and my assets rather than enjoying and living my life filled with fun and love. This is totally never my thing and I would never think of such a thing, even if I was rich.
Purelife first of all, when i mentioned midlife crisis, i wasn't talking about mine but the other person's. That's what i meant by people change.Also your a woman. When it comes to divorce it's a poorly kept secret that the courts 99.99 % favour the woman. That's just a fact of life. As a man i have to try to limit my damage.
Old days used to favour the women, ripper. Nowadays, courts are giving fair treatment to the guys as wells. Men and Women can both be great gold diggers. Courts are getting to be tough on women as well. It used to be the mother who would have custody of kids, now, fathers are included for fair trial as well. And we are now seeing more and more fathers awarded with sole custody. I agree with you that women get away with SO MUCH! I do hope that there is some sort of fairness, but then again, that's only wishful thinking.
I never understand women who marry for money. I can take care of myself with or without a man in my life. I would NEVER ask for any spousal support or anything. I wouldn't even ask to borrow money if I'm in need. Heck, I wouldn't even ask my parents. I'd rather borrow from Institutions and pay the interest.[/DIV]
Purelife you sound like a very decent person. Your fiance is one lucky man. I wish you and yours the very best. Take care.
purelife wrote: I never understand women who marry for money. I can take care of myself with or without a man in my life. I would NEVER ask for any spousal support or anything. I wouldn't even ask to borrow money if I'm in need. Heck, I wouldn't even ask my parents. I'd rather borrow from Institutions and pay the interest.[/DIV][/DIV]
I dont agree that the courts dont still favour the woman.. but thats JMHO. :)
I know two girls (uh women now I guess) that have married almost entirely for money.. theres one thats starting to talk divorce now. The guys worth a mil and a half (at our best guess not talking to either of them as it really isnt our business, but we talk, lol) and they have a prenup. He had the assets. It IS expected to be overturned. Depending on the circumstances, prenups can be overturned. But they are not always.
I have borrowed money from family, I dont like to, but I have. I do pay some interest back. Not the current interest but something for the money lent. When I borrowed an amount from a parent that they had to borrow from the bank, I paid all the interest and stuff. They just took the loan out as I couldnt at that age with no assets.
I know that the courts still favor the women. I just hope that men are treated just the same, but then again, that's wishing. But, it's changing these days.
REMOVED PARAGRAPH. (TMI!)
I suspect women hear from women friends about their 'unfair' treatment the same as men hear from men about theirs. I too believe it is lopsided against men but I also believe and hope this will someday become based strictly on facts instead of this old fashioned bias.
I wonder what would happen if cases were presented to a judge without knowlege of gender. Like...
Spouse A petitioned for divorce on the grounds of adultery..........or whatever. Spouse B agrees or admits adltery......or whatever.
Length of marriage. Assets of marriage etc etc etc.
Regarding divorce settlements, as defined by a recent survey women obtained a better or considerably better settlement than men in 60% of cases. In 30% of cases the assets were split 50-50, and in only 10% of cases did men achieve better settlements.
purelife wrote:
I know that the courts still favor the women. I just hope that men are treated just the same, but then again, that's wishing. But, it's changing these days.
I needed my mom to co-sign to consolidate my debt. I had the option to consolidate all my debt and pay one low fee and have my debt paid off in 3 years. I would've been in my second year if I had asked my mom. BUT, my mom and I aren't close and I don't like to ask her because I know that she would hum and haw over this and that, just makes me withdraw. If I was a mom and saw that my kids need my signature for a co-sign, I would damn well help them out. I wouldn't want to see them struggle with two jobs. I have two jobs and this consolidation would've helped me SO MUCH but because I know that my mom would NEVER do this, I have to keep on trudging along and try try again to get an approval from my bank.
Ok, end of rant and sorry to bore you.[/DIV]
No need to appologize purelife. Thats what things like this place are for.. post and get reactions. To be honest.. we sound like we have similar probs with the 'rents. My dad is like your mother, only he would lecture you on how you should live your life, this is what he thinks and you would do so you do it this way. LOL, unfortunately for him it doesnt work like that so he starts yelling and gets into a funk and sulks off. He talks to his sister about his problems all the time and takes her advice.. big sister.
My mother helped me out. She kindve lets us learn on our own, harps on us (still dammit) about problems, but still will help us out all she can. You can tell shes origionally from the island as well, lol.
P.c. that's a very interesting idea. I'm sure all men would jump at that opportunity. The radical feminists however would scream bloody murder and the courts would back down immediately.
I agree ripper, thats a novel Idea PC!! Too bad it probably wont be accepted.
Well, they could scream all they wanted. Would it not then be based precisely on the FACTS. How could one dispute this. Emotional testimony left aside......
It would be an interesting experiment, to see two cases.... Identical couple, identical circumstances, same lawyers, same arguments......then have them switch places and repeat the process with everything exactly the same. Only the man would own the womans case, and the woman, the mans'.
I wonder how that would come out?
I agree with that idea PC. That way, there will be no prejudgement/bias.
Divorce should be based upon facts. Unfortunately we all know that is not the case. Women costantly lie incourt and get away with it. They'll say that their exhusbands were abusive to them or their children. Even when caught lying, there are no consequences.
And the honest ones pay for it when women lie. It's sad, really.
And the honest ones pay for it when women lie. It's sad, really.
Hence the reason why I was posting about prenup. That and all the horror stories of divorced people that I hear evrywhere around me (true or not, how can we know...)
Prenups are only good if no children are involved. If there are kids you can kiss your life away.
The court makes a decision about how much to pay based on the kid's interests. The mom and dad really have no say as to how much to receive and pay out.
Sound reassuring. No need for prenup then...
I could be wrong though. This is what I understand from the Court systems here in BC.
ripper wrote: Women costantly lie incourt and get away with it.
This is a bit of a bias in itself. I think it would be more accurate to say that people lie in court and get away with it. To suggest that the courts favour women in a divorce settlement is one thing (and to some degree can be backed up with proof) but to suggest women lie in court any more than men is ludicrous. Sorry ripper, but I don't buy it.
I imagine it would take a lot more than some statistics about court settlements to get the real picture. For example....60 to 90% of divorce petitions are started by women. On average, 75% of those petitions are filed due to spousal adultery. You gotta wonder if the lopsidedness of how the over-all outcomes look, might really be quite balanced.
Grrrrrrr.......Prenuptial agreement, yes or no, pros and cons, is it working or a lawyer can get rid of it ?
Also, would you feel insulted if your BF/GF asked you to sign a prenup ?
Replyers please specify sex if possible
Grrrrrrr....I am curious if YOU are male or female.....and also if you are the prenupper or the prenuppee. And BTW....I am a female.[/DIV]
I based my comments on two divorces that i personally witnessed. I had two friends that went through divorces and each time the woman when testifying would start to cry and tell horrific stories of abuse. But i knew those stories to be bullcrap. However to be fair to the women, i don't blame them. The system encourages them to try and get any advantage they can. As the saying goes alls fair in love and war.
OMG....it's hailing like crazy out there.....holy loudness.
Anyway.....ripper, you have statistics that are 100% to back up your claims. 2 out of 2.
All I've learned over the years, and I unfortunately know dozens more than 2 divorced couples....myself included......is that the dynamics of other peoples marriages are far more complex than what you witness when they come to your house for dinner on Saturday night.
I even learned things about my SISTER that knocked my socks off. How she is as a sister, or a mother or a friend is only clear to those who ARE her sister, her children or her friends. How she is as a wife is something that is only known to her husband. .......And of course vice versa.
I guess all I'm saying is, don't let those things dictate or taint what marriage means to YOU. If people were as anxious to invest as much energy, time and commitment into each other as they did into drawing up documents to release themselves unscathed after their failure, I suspect they would be far richer in everything.
P.C. very well said. Thank you for this enjoyable and enlightening conversation.
I enjoyed it too, ripper. Thanks back.
I even learned things about my SISTER that knocked my socks off. How she is as a sister, or a mother or a friend is only clear to those who ARE her sister, her children or her friends. How she is as a wife is something that is only known to her husband. .......And of course vice versa. I guess all I'm saying is, don't let those things dictate or taint what marriage means to YOU. If people were as anxious to invest as much energy, time and commitment into each other as they did into drawing up documents to release themselves unscathed after their failure, I suspect they would be far richer in everything.
[/DIV]I totally agree with you PC. I couldn't have worded it better than you. Excellent! :)
a prenup protects both the groom and the bride......I personally think it should be part of every marriage license, afterall the marriage license is a contract between two persons.....and when have you seen a contract without conditions and clauses.
I see it more like, when did you need a second contract to make sure you stick to the first contract.
The 'terms and conditions' or clauses are the vows.
edit: I don't want a contract that protects me from my spouse, nor do I want a spouse who wants to be protected from me.
P.C. wrote:
I see it more like, when did you need a second contract to make sure you stick to the first contract.
The 'terms and conditions' or clauses are the vows.
edit: I don't want a contract that protects me from my spouse, nor do I want a spouse who wants to be protected from me.P.C. i agree with you 100%. Unfortunately we need a second cotract to protect ourselves from blood sucking divorce lawyers.
Unfortunately we need a second cotract to protect ourselves from blood sucking divorce lawyers.
There's certainly some truth to that, ripper. They will get rich no matter who is right or wrong. Do you think a prenup would save someone from that?
I have a tendency to be a tad idealistic about marriage and relationships. I just think people toss in the towel too quickly, and I'm opposed to anything that facilitates that.
I just know we're doing something wrong, and I think it's worth trying to figure out what it is.
I guess one reason is we're probably not being honest with ourselves about who we choose to marry and why.
P.C. nothing can save you from a divorce lawyer once he/she has their claws on you. With or without a prenup they will still make off with the cash. All they have to do is tell the other party to fight the prenup and it'll get tied up in court indefinitely.
Aint that the truth, ripper.
I think the old adage, 'He who represents himself has a fool for a client' has become blurred over the years. Unfortunately we still opt to line the pockets of lawyers because it seems you have no options......so we're STILL fools. We're just poorer fools at the end of the day.
I believe I saw somewhere, that there is an on-line divorce kit. It is only for uncontested divorces, but it would certainly remove a few un-earned dollars from the lawyers.
edit: Grrrrrrr....I am curious if YOU are male or female.....and also if you are the prenupper or the prenuppee. And BTW....I am a female.[/DIV]
I'm still curious......
lol, this will destroy the objectivity of your reply if you know... (//vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/richedit/smileys/9.gif)
How could it ? My opinions don't change according to who asked the question........well, unless you're a lawyer.....lol Sooooo..............
Grrrrrr,
Why so much head ache before even get married...
This question and how you approach this define your relationship... imho
PC,
Grrrrrr put the same question on DV. The gender is cleared on that post,
mwahahaha (little evil laugh)
I agree Orca, I read the post over there too. The OP got more suggestive replies too, LOL.
Do tell Orca.....don't leave me hangin !!!!! [img style="CURSOR: pointer" onclick=url(this.src); src="vny!://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/more/bigs/c008.gif" border=0]
I saw this same question over at DV too.
Yes, Orca. Do share with us the juicy gossip of that known to is, DV!
Don't make me meet up with you for dinner to talk about this, young lady. ;) tee hee...
lol sorry, no headache, but you're entitled to your opinion. Enjoy your diners girls !(//forums/richedit/smileys/Word_Greetings/1.gif)