How many of you believe that an airplane ("American Airlines flight 77") crashed into the Pentagon?
Take a look at this and then answer the question:
[a href="vny!://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon.php"]vny!://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon.php[/a]
Wow. IF ALL the evidence there IS, was shown in that clip, I'd say no. But it's hard to know exactly what we're looking at. Are we seeing all there is to see ? I'm aware of how the context of anything can be altered, simply by omission, or by adding dialogue selectively.
That would probably be funny if it weren't for the subject matter. I'm not really sure I support the author trying to make a joke about that incident.
I have viewed a number of DVDs that attempt to probe that there is no way that a plane could have possibly made that hole. Some pretty convincing stuff.... I am not sure what I believe, but i am certainly open to the possibility that it was not an airplane.
I personally have no doubt that whatever hit the Pentagon was NOT a Boeing 757. No way.
That memoryhole video shows just a few of the things that just don't make sense. You don't have to be an aviation disaster analyst to see that the story doesn't match the evidence at all.
For example, in virtually every crash of any modern passenger plane you will find certain specific items such as tray tables and luggage, to name just a couple. It's absolutely 100% guaranteed- these items are either built into or carried onboard the plane.
Tray tables often become detatched from the seats and are flung all over by the force of the crash as well as by secondary impact events (passenger hits a chair, chair breaks off and hits a another chair, etc, etc).
Luggage is also likely to be strewn around if it's a typical crash, and more importantly most luggage isn't built to withstand crashing into the ground at 600mph (no matter what Samsonite would have you believe). So what happens is that a lot of the pieces of luggage burst open and the clothes inside get flung around all over by crash forces and aerodynamic disturbances (to put it mildly).
These are just two very very typical things that happen when a passenger plane crashes.
In the Pentagon imagery, however, there is no sign whatsoever of any tray tables or luggage or clothing....none, nada, zero, zip, zilch. Hello? THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE....unless what crashed wasn't a passenger plane.
The other undisputable item is that there don't appear to be any wings, wing damage, wing marks, wing bits and pieces.... Where did those wascally wings go?!
Also as the video shows, whatever it was that hit bored a nice clean f*cking hole through multiple rings reinforced concrete. There's no way a 757 or any other (soft, aluminum-nose airplane) is going to do that. There are things that will do that, but a passenger plane isn't one of them.
So, a few of the unanswerable questions are
[ul][li]Why don't we see the inevitable debris from plane the size of a 757 hitting a building? [/li][li]Where did the wings go? It's a simple question: Where did the wings go? [/li][li]How did a soft-nose passenger plane punch a nice tidy hole through so much damn concrete and steel rebar?[/li][/ul]
I don't claim to know what hit the Pentagon, but I do know what didn't hit it. It wasn't a Boeing 757.
Wow, I'm floored. Here I thought it was a joke. Apparently there actually are people who think it wasn't the plane.
I'm sorry if I offended anyone, but really. Isn't this kind of way out there on the conspiracy theory wing?
I'm sorry if I offended anyone, but really. Isn't this kind of way out there on the conspiracy theory wing?
I'm not offended. Yes, it sounds wild, bizarre, crazy, etc etc.....but when you look at the evidence, the 'official' story is just utterly impossible to believe. I mean, look for yourself. What they claim happened, didn't happen. Couldn't have happened.
You tell me- where did the debris, luggage and bodies go?
It's an uncomfortable truth that we've been lied to. Most people don't want to go there because of the things it implies. But the fact is that there is no way to reconcile the physical evidence with the story we're being given. It's impossible.
Yeah, you know... I had never really thought about it until I saw this stuff. I generally pay little mind to anything that sounds "conspiracy theory"-esque, because I am a big supporter of skepticism and critical thinking, and so often conspiracy theories and paranormal theories take the approach of saying, "Well, since we don't know what this phenomenon IS, it MUST have a magical/fantastical/sinister explanation," which is misguided. But then after reading this Pentagon bit, I realized that we all heard a LOT about the sad victims of the other plane crashes, and heard their relatives talk about the tragedies. We heard about the recoveries of even the tiniest fragments of flesh, teeth, wedding rings. But on the Pentagon crash? Nada. Does anyone know if there is a list of the passengers? Because if there is, it seems it would be fairly easy to check out whether or not they are real people.
I just watched it YET AGAIN, and 'from THOSE pictures', it sure doesn't look like a plane did that damage. The image that was shown on impact, shows nothing moving across the path TO impact. It's very strange.
I am a big supporter of skepticism and critical thinking,
And so am I, very much so in fact. I'm a big fan of the [a href="vny!://www.randi.org/"]Amazing Randi[/a], probably the world's greatest debunker.
and so often conspiracy theories and paranormal theories take the approach of saying, "Well, since we don't know what this phenomenon IS, it MUST have a magical/fantastical/sinister explanation,"
Basically the problem here is that the story doesn't fit the evidence. No one's suggesting a magical or supernatural explanation. "Sinister" might end up fitting quite well, though.
[H1]AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT 77[/H1][P class=text]American Airlines Flight 77, from Washington to Los Angeles, crashed into the Pentagon with 64 people aboard.
[P class=text][H3]CREW [/H3]
[P class=text]Charles Burlingame of Herndon, Virginia, was the plane's captain. He is survived by a wife, a daughter and a grandson. He had more than 20 years of experience flying with American Airlines and was a former U.S. Navy pilot.
[P class=text]David Charlebois, who lived in Washington's Dupont Circle neighborhood, was the first officer on the flight. "He was handsome and happy and very centered," his neighbor Travis White, told The Washington Post. "His life was the kind of life I wanted to have some day."
[P class=text]Michele Heidenberger of Chevy Chase, Maryland, was a flight attendant for 30 years. She left behind a husband, a pilot, and a daughter and son.
[P class=text]Flight attendant Jennifer Lewis, 38, of Culpeper, Virginia, was the wife of flight attendant Kenneth Lewis.
[P class=text]Flight attendant Kenneth Lewis, 49, of Culpeper, Virginia, was the husband of flight attendant Jennifer Lewis.
[P class=text]Renee May, 39, of Baltimore, Maryland, was a flight attendant.
[P class=text][H3]PASSENGERS[/H3]
[P class=text]Paul Ambrose, 32, of Washington, was a physician who worked with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the surgeon general to address racial and ethnic disparities in health. A 1995 graduate of Marshall University School of Medicine, Ambrose last year was named the Luther Terry Fellow of the Association of Teachers of Preventative Medicine.
[P class=text]Yeneneh Betru, 35, was from Burbank, California.
[P class=text]M.J. Booth
[P class=text]Bernard Brown, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.
[P class=text]Suzanne Calley, 42, of San Martin, California, was an employee of Cisco Systems Inc.
[P class=text]William Caswell
[P class=text]Sarah Clark, 65, of Columbia, Maryland, was a sixth-grade teacher at Backus Middle School in Washington. She was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.
[P class=text]Asia Cottom, 11, was a student at Backus Middle School in Washington. Asia was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.
[P class=text]James Debeuneure, 58, of Upper Marlboro, Maryland, was a fifth-grade teacher at Ketcham Elementary School in Washington. He was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.
[P class=text]Rodney Dickens, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.
[P class=text]Eddie Dillard
[P class=text]Charles Droz
[P class=text]Barbara Edwards, 58, of Las Vegas, Nevada, was a teacher at Palo Verde High School in Las Vegas.
[P class=text]Charles S. Falkenberg, 45, of University Park, Maryland, was the director of research at ECOlogic Corp., a software engineering firm. He worked on data systems for NASA and also developed data systems for the study of global and regional environmental issues. Falkenburg was traveling with his wife, Leslie Whittingham, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3.
[P class=text]Zoe Falkenberg, 8, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham.
[P class=text]Dana Falkenberg, 3, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham.
[P class=text]Joe Ferguson was the director of the National Geographic Society's geography education outreach program in Washington. He was accompanying a group of students and teachers on an educational trip to the Channel Islands in California. A Mississippi native, he joined the society in 1987. "Joe Feguson's final hours at the Geographic reveal the depth of his commitment to one of the things he really loved," said John Fahey Jr., the society's president. "Joe was here at the office until late Monday evening preparing for this trip. It was his goal to make this trip perfect in every way."
[P class=text]Wilson "Bud" Flagg of Millwood, Virginia, was a retired Navy admiral and retired American Airlines pilot.
[P class=text]Dee Flagg
[P class=text]Richard Gabriel
[P class=text]Ian Gray, 55, of Washington was the president of a health-care consulting firm.
[P class=text]Stanley Hall, 68, was from Rancho Palos Verdes, California.
[P class=text]Bryan Jack, 48, of Alexandria, Virginia, was a senior executive at the Defense Department.
[P class=text]Steven D. "Jake" Jacoby, 43, of Alexandria, Virginia, was the chief operating officer of Metrocall Inc., a wireless data and messaging company.
[P class=text]Ann Judge, 49, of Virginia was the travel office manager for the National Geographic Society. She was accompanying a group of students and teachers on an educational trip to the Channel Islands in California. Society President John Fahey Jr. said one of his fondest memories of Judge is a voice mail she and a colleague once left him while they were rafting the Monkey River in Belize. "This was quintessential Ann -- living life to the fullest and wanting to share it with others," he said.
[P class=text]Chandler Keller, 29, was a Boeing propulsion engineer from El Segundo, California.
[P class=text]Yvonne Kennedy
[P class=text]Norma Khan, 45, from Reston, Virginia was a nonprofit organization manager.
[P class=text]Karen A. Kincaid, 40, was a lawyer with the Washington firm of Wiley Rein & Fielding. She joined the firm in 1993 and was part of the its telecommunications practice. She was married to Peter Batacan.
[P class=text]Norma Langsteuerle
[P class=text]Dong Lee
[P class=text]Dora Menchaca, 45, of Santa Monica, California, was the associate director of clinical research for a biotech firm.
[P class=text]Christopher Newton, 38, of Anaheim, California, was president and chief executive officer of Work-Life Benefits, a consultation and referral service. He was married and had two children. Newton was on his way back to Orange County to retrieve his family's yellow Labrador, who had been left behind until they could settle into their new home in Arlington, Virginia.
[P class=text]Barbara Olson, 45, was a conservative commentator who often appeared on CNN and was married to U.S. Solicitor General Theodore Olson. She twice called her husband as the plane was being hijacked and described some details, including that the attackers were armed with knives. She had planned to take a different flight, but she changed it at the last minute so that she could be with her husband on his birthday. She worked as an investigator for the House Government Reform Committee in the mid-1990s and later worked on the staff of Senate Minority Whip Don Nickles.
[P class=text]Ruben Ornedo, 39, of Los Angeles, California, was a Boeing propulsion engineer.
[P class=text]Robert Penniger, 63, of Poway, California, was an electrical engineer with BAE Systems.
[P class=text]Lisa Raines, 42, was senior vice president for government relations at the Washington office of Genzyme, a biotechnology firm. She was from Great Falls, Virginia, and was married to Stephen Push. She worked with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration on developing a new policy governing cellular therapies, announced in 1997. She also worked on other major health-care legislation.
[P class=text]Todd Reuben, 40, of Potomac, Maryland, was a tax and business lawyer.
[P class=text]John Sammartino
[P class=text]Diane Simmons
[P class=text]George Simmons
[P class=text]Mari-Rae Sopper of Santa Barbara, California, was a women's gymnastics coach at the University of California at Santa Barbara. She had just gotten the post August 31 and was making the trip to California to start work.
[P class=text]Bob Speisman, 47, was from Irvington, New York.
[P class=text]Hilda Taylor was a sixth-grade teacher at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. She was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.
[P class=text]Leonard Taylor was from Reston, Virginia.
[P class=text]Leslie A. Whittington, 45, was from University Park, Maryland. The professor of public policy at Georgetown University in Washington was traveling with her husband, Charles Falkenberg, 45, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3. They were traveling to Los Angeles to catch a connection to Australia. Whittington had been named a visiting fellow at Australian National University in Canberra.
[P class=text]John Yamnicky, 71, was from Waldorf, Maryland.
[P class=text]Vicki Yancey
[P class=text]Shuyin Yang
[P class=text]Yuguag Zheng
Eyewitness accounts: [A href="vny!://eric.bart.free.fr/iwpb/witness.html"]vny!://eric.bart.free.fr/iwpb/witness.html[/A]
Please yourself. Posting a passenger list doesn't 'prove' anything one way or the other.
Maybe you can tell me, where did the wings go?
Where did the passenger list come from? I would like to follow up on the whole thing. Have there been comments/explanations from engineers and scientists about how those holes might have ended up looking like that, and where the wings went, and other fishy-sounding stuff? And if so, for whom do the quoted experts work? (Consider the source -- ALWAYS consider the source! -- when listening to the arguments from BOTH sides, I always say...) I am not trying to ask either pointed or rhetorical questions on this subject, I am just very very curious at this point.
And props to James Randi! He is one of my top-ten HEROES!
I have heard several first hand accounts of people actually seeing the 757 just prior to impact, one of them was from a prominent Canadian lefty who happened to be in the area at the time (was it Stephen Lewis... can't remember exactly who it was, will have to dig around on Google to see exactly who it was.) Also, I am not sure if you people thing that an aircraft wing (or any part of an aircraft) is solid steel. It's basically just a thin skin on a lightweight skeleton... no match for the beefy structure of the Pentagon. vny!://news.uns.purdue.edu/html4ever/020910.Sozen.Pentagon.html vny!://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/pentagon_20020316.html
For what it's worth I found this picture with some wreckage in it...[/DIV](//vny!://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f350/seanfleckenstein/hullpart.jpg)...but I don't believe that it's real. There is no charred parts or any smoke damage or anything indicating that it was in a blast. When one looks at the images from a Google search of this subject, nothing comes up that actually shows any plane parts.
lol.
the plane was shredded upon impact.all passengers,crew and many in the building died as a result of this large boeing airliner plowing into the pentagon.
there was no surface to air missle,no drone jet,no small fighter,no land based missle,the cia or the american federal government did not destroy the building themselves. i am surprised people are still debating this stuff. third rate conspiracy ideas unsubstantiated.
The conspiracy IS the conspiracy.
lol.[/DIV] [/DIV]"the plane was shredded upon impact.all passengers,crew and many in the building died as a result of this large boeing airliner plowing into the pentagon."[/DIV] That's true, but then where are the shreds ? Even amongst the ruins of the Twin Towers, which suffered a greater impact and aftermath of destruction, there was still 'evidence' of the aircraft. Just for the record, I'm not hopping on the 'conspiracy bandwagon', but these are images and issues, that I've never seen, nor even thought about. (I mean from a 'technical' standpoint), so I'm finding this kind of fascinating. And I have to stick to my initial reaction to those images, that the path of destruction, doesn't look like the hole left from an aircraft.
the plane was shredded upon impact.all passengers,crew and many in the building died as a result of this large boeing airliner plowing into the pentagon.
Bullcrap. The amount of debris seen is nowhere near enough to account for a plane the size of a 757. The plane didn't vaporize into nothing.
[/div] third rate conspiracy ideas unsubstantiated.[/div][div] [div]It sure doesn't look to me like it was a plane that hit. I think there's a lot more to this story than what we're being told.
If a 757 hit the pentagon like they say, how come there aren't marks on the building where the wings should have been? There's not a mark on that building. Explain that. The wings sure didn't come off prior to hitting the building or there would be marks on the ground (plus lots of obvious wing pieces too). I don't think that it was a plane either.
yeah the government would never ever lie to us
I find myself going back to that clip, over and over.....even though I KNOW that images can be 'arranged' to suit any theory (I think), and I'm amazed at how blatant it seems.
This whole subject gets curioser and curiouser the more I research it.[/DIV](//vny!://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f350/seanfleckenstein/pentagon_hole2.jpg)
Or check this out. An on the scene newscast that says there's no plane.[/DIV][A href="vny!://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=vny!://thewebfairy.com/911/pentagon/image/mcintyre-pentagon.jpg&imgrefurl=vny!://thewebfairy.com/911/pentagon/&h=240&w=352&sz=61&tbnid=W7X0AXMCWhmFrM:&tbnh=79&tbnw=116&hl=en&start=10&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpentagon%2B9/11%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26rls%3DHPIC,HPIC:2005-18,HPIC:en%26sa%3DN"]vny!://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=vny!://thewebfairy.com/911/pentagon/image/mcintyre-pentagon.jpg&imgrefurl=vny!://thewebfairy.com/911/pentagon/&h=240&w=352&sz=61&tbnid=W7X0AXMCWhmFrM:&tbnh=79&tbnw=116&hl=en&start=10&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpentagon%2B9/11%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26rls%3DHPIC,HPIC:2005-18,HPIC:en%26sa%3DN[/A]
The only problem to your conspiracy is this: If a plane didn't hit the pentagon then where are the people who died on that plane today?
That's a huge question indeed Sportsdude. Did they get shot down by jet fighters? Are they all in Guantanamo? Whoever's behind this doesn't have any qualms about taking lives. But I'm starting to get pretty convinced that was no 757 that hit the Pentagon. The lawn's immaculate, the one video shot shows something much smaller, no obvious plane wreckage. I can't think of one convincing argument otherwise so far.
"The only problem to your conspiracy is this: If a plane didn't hit the pentagon then where are the people who died on that plane today?"[/DIV] [/DIV]Well, I guess the problem I could have with that is.....what people ? Couldn't anybody make up an imaginary list of passengers. Why have the families of these victims missed the same platform as the families of the WTC ?I've seen widows and widowers of the victims of the Twin Towers popping up on the talk show scene over the last few years, but never the surviving spouses of the victims of the Pentagon.
Ted Olsen who works with the bush administrations wife died on the plane. [/DIV]The problem is this is just too stupid to be taken for real. I'm pretty crazy but I'm not this crazy.
Well, I certainly haven't come to any conclusions about it, but I'm sure finding it interesting. I must live in a bubble, because this is the first I've even heard of a conspiracy theory. This 'alternative' scenario, DOES give one some curious things to think about.
I'm not all that into these "9/11 the Government did it" conspiracies. Even though I saw the terror attacks coming due to america's foreign policy and the first world trade center bombings, kenyan bombings, the cole bombings and so on. When the teacher told the class that this happend I said out loud Osama bin Laden and every one stopped, turned around, and looked at me in puzzlement to who that was.
Wow....well that goes to show you MY ignorance. I don't think I'd ever heard of him before that.
Well its not like I read any books about him or anything while kids my age were watching cartoons when they were little I was watching the news. Kids who watched cartoons in my generation missed out. In a span of 13 years starting from when the berlin wall fell - i remember peter jennings standing on the wall I was 3 years old to[/DIV]the first wtc bombing[/DIV]waking up to the la earthquake[/DIV]the biggest flood in the history of north america happend in my backyard. It was facinating govt let people walked up the highway to the flats in chesterfield to see the destruction[/DIV]- I remember waking up when i was 5 and turning on the tv and watched russian helicopters shooting missiles at the russian parliment building. (Yelstiens coup).[/DIV]Vaguely remember the Quebec referendum- mainly because the U.S. media didn't cover it mainly because they didn't care.[/DIV]I remember watching Waco[/DIV]Oklahoma City[/DIV]Saw Atlanta bombings when it happend. It was the year my grandpa died so we were in florida and I couldn't sleep that night and watched the bomb go off on live television.[/DIV]Remember watching Bosnia, Kosovo, Gulf War 1. Bombing of Baghdad under Clinton, and of course GWII.Oh and I remember Tiamen Square.Again somehow I remember it at 3. The only backlash to this is that you eventually become de-sensitized. Which I have become. I basically now feel no pain for people. Most of my generation will become this way only it happend to them on september 11 while it happend to me much earlier.
[table border="1" cellpadding="30" cellspacing="0" cols="1" width="780"][tbody][tr][td]
[a href="vny!://thewebfairy.com/nerdcities/Hufschmid/index.html"]Main page[/a][h1]Where did the plane hit the Pentagon?[/h1]
You must look at this French site that has an analysis of Flight 77, which crashed into the Pentagon. Here is their English version:
[a href="vny!://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm" target="_blank"]vny!://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm[/a]And this site is doing 3D simulations:
[a href="vny!://www.ifrance.fr/silentbutdeadly/" target="_blank"]vny!://www.ifrance.fr/silentbutdeadly/[/a][/p]The French are pointing out:[/p][ul type="circle"][li]No photo shows airplane pieces, body parts of passengers, luggage,etc, nor do news reports mention such parts.
[/li][li]The initial damage was along the ground floor, which implies the plane hit the ground floor, but there is no airplane-shaped hole in the building. Most importantly, the body of the plane was taller than one floor of the building. Therefore, the body of the plane should have punched a hole through at least two floors.
[/li][li]The section that collapsed did so quite a while
after the plane crash, just as the WTC buildings collapsed for no apparent reason long after the plane crashes (in the case of building 7, the collapse was many
hours later).[/li][/ul]Photos of the North and South WTC towers show airplane-shaped holes, so
where is the hole in the Pentagon? And where are the airplane pieces, luggage, and dead passengers?
[table cellpadding="30" width="660"][tbody][tr][td][a href="vny!://thewebfairy.com/nerdcities/Hufschmid/eh29.jpg" target="_blank"][img]vny!://thewebfairy.com/nerdcities/Hufschmid/eh29s.jpg" align="left" border="0" height="238" hspace="10" vspace="10" width="130"][/a][/td][td]The French site has a top view, so I made this front view to show how large the hole in the Pentagon should be (although I certainly have thes caling slightly incorrect because it is difficult to scale four photos properly). (click the image)The upper portion of the image shows the hole in the North tower. The people in the windows give you an indication of the size of the hole.Of course, the plane that hit the North tower was a 767, which was slightly larger than the 757 in this image. [/p][/td][/tr][/tbody][/table]The wings of a Boeing 757 are 125 feet wide (38 meters); the body is 155 feet long (47m); and each engine isabout 9 feet in diameter (2.75m). The plane weighs more than 100 tons.
For 757 specs: [a href="vny!://www.boeing.com/commercial/757-200/product.html" target="_blank"]vny!://www.boeing.com/commercial/757-200/product.html[/a]
[/p][h3]A 757 is half the height of the Pentagon[/h3]We are told the plane came in low to the ground,which explains the lack of a hole in the upper floors of the building.However, the distance between the bottom of the engines and the top of the cabin is more than 18 feet (5.5m). From the bottom of the engines to the top of the tail is about 41 feet (12.6m). The Pentagon is 77 feet (23 meters) tall. Therefore, the plane was 53% of the height ofthe Pentagon.
Pentagon specs: [a href="vny!://www.defenselink.mil/pubs/pentagon/facts.html" target="_blank"]vny!://www.defenselink.mil/pubs/pentagon/facts.html[/a][/p]Look at the size of the plane in my composite image.In order for the plane to hit
only the first floor of the building, the engines would have to be below ground level, and we have to ignore the tail.[/p]Also, the plane was 155 feet (47m) long; the only way such a long plane could slip into the first floor is if it were perfectly horizontal and perfectly level. The slightest tilting would cause it to take out the second floor or dig into the dirt.[/p]Considering there is very busy freeway in front of the crash site, along with road signs, light posts, and trees, how did the plane get so close to the ground? Those Arabs were great pilots!
[/p][h3]Jet-fuel fireballs are dark orange![/h3]On 7 March 2002 the Pentagon released five images from a security camera to prove the Arabs flew a Boeing 757 into thePentagon. Obviously they
lied when they said they did not have any video of the plane crash, but now they feel they must release it, probably to counteract that French site.
Here is the video: [a href="vny!://www.msnbc.com/news/720851.asp" target="_blank"]vny!://www.msnbc.com/news/720851.asp[/a][/p]Since they lied about the video, can we trust them on other issues? How many times does a person have to lie to you before you question his other remarks?[/p]The image below is a composite of two frames of that lousy, low quality video. There are two odd things to notice in these two frames.
[/p]
[img]vny!://thewebfairy.com/nerdcities/Hufschmid/eh28s.jpg" height="454" width="320"]
1) In the upper frame there is something white near the extreme right edge.This resembles the exhast of a missile. A 757 does
not leave a trail of white smoke.Whatever is producing the white smoke is hidden behind the rectangular object in the foreground. It would be more useful to see the frames before and after this. What a coincidence that the military decided to release the frame in which this large 757 is hidden behind a small object![/p]2) In the lower frame the white smoke has dissipated slightly, and whatever produced the white smoke has exploded. It looks as if the explosion started before it hit the building. Also, the fireball from an airplane crash (or an automobile crash) will be dark orange and full of soot. A bright, clean fireball implies plenty of oxygen was available;ie, explosives.[/p]The Pentagon is 77 feet (23 meters) tall. Notice that the fireball in this image is perhaps 50% taller than the Pentagon.Since the fireball is a bright yellow at this large size, what did it look like when it was half this size? Why not release all of the video frames?[/p]Perhaps the frames before this one showed the fireball glowing such a bright, bluish white that it looked like 10,000 people were arc welding at the same time!
[/p][h3]The Arabs were incredible pilots[/h3]The Pentagon is a very large building, but it is low to the ground. The plane the Arabs were flying was more than half the height of thebuilding. The easiest thing for the Arabs to do it would be to hit the
top of the building while diving down at an angle.However, we are told that the Arabs decided to hit the
front of the building. More amazing, instead of hitting while diving down at an angle,we are told that they flew only [span style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;"]inches [/span]above the ground to hit the ground floor of the buildingin a nearly horizontal manner.[/p]There is a busy highway in front of the Pentagon, along with a railing, trees, and other objects. We are suppose to believe the Arabs flew only slightly above the cars along the highway. One witness claims that the airplane was so low that it knocked down a light post along the road.[/p]To make this more absurd, after passing over the highway the Arabs had only a
fraction of a second of flight time remaining, and in that brief time the Arabs dropped the plane
even lower to a few millimeters above the grass.[/p]The pilot's view of the ground in a 757 is not very good. For the Arabs to fly so low was a tremendous achievement. Especially when traveling at 345 mph (555 km/hour), which is the speed the flight data recorder supposedly shows.(The Pentagon claims to have found the flight data recorder, but the other parts of the 100 ton airplane vanished. I can believe that!)[/p]Furthermore, airplanes never fly in straight lines; rather, they roll and tilt. Therefore, flying only inches above the ground without crashing is a tremendous achievement for inexperienced pilots![/p]Do you realize that the 757 was behaving as if it was a
cruise missile?
[/p][h3]The Arabs certainly were nice guys![/h3]The reports claim that the Arabs flew around the Pentagon a while before hitting the building. By coincidence, the section the Arabs chose to hit did not have many people in it, so casualties were much lower than if they had hit elsewhere. That particular section was being renovated, and the people who normally worked there had been sent to other offices.[/p]The Pentagon is said to be the largest office building in the world, and the Arabs decided to hit the small section that was being renovated.What a coincidence that the Arabs did not hit Rumfeld's office.What a coincidence that the Arabs did not hit a section of the building that was full of people.[/p]Did the nice Arabs fly around the Pentagon awhile in order to find the section with the least number of people in it?
[/p][h3]How rapidly did the fireball expand?[/h3]The date and time is displayed in the lower left corner of the five frames of video that the Pentagon decided to let us see, although the time is incorrect byabout 32 hours.The time is shown only to the nearest second. I suspect the real video has IRIG time code recorded on an audio track, in which case the military could precisely identify each frame of video.[/p]
The first and second frames have identical times. The first frame shows the building before the plane hit. The second frame shows a fireball that is at least 50 percent taller than the pentagon. This means that within 1 second the plane crashed and a fireball grew to a height of at least 100 feet (33m).[/p]If we could see the frames between those two we could estimate the rate at which the fireball expands. This would also let us determine whether the fireball was from jet fuel or an explosive. Jet fuel fireballs, as with automobile fireballs, do not expand very quickly. By comparison, the fireball from an explosive can expand at an enormous rate.[/p]Why does the Pentagon allow us to see only five frames of video rather than the entire video? Note that the video of the planes hitting the World Trade Centers and the collapse of the towers were broadcast by American news reporters at least 2 million times during September in order to stimulate anger towards the Arabs. Why did they not broadcast the video of this plane crashing into the Pentagon at least 2 million times?[/p]I think the Pentagon refuses to release the entire video because it would show a small missile flying close to the ground, and then it would show the fireball expanding at such an incredible rate that even the "ordinary" Americans would realize that it was from an explosive.[/p]If the video proves that a 757 hit the building then the Pentagon officials are idiots for keeping the video a secret. They are also idiots for hiding the remains of the plane, the dead passengers, and the luggage. Their secrecy is allowing conspiracy rumors to run wild.[/p]Do you think the Pentagon officials are so stupid as to hide proof of the 757? I doubt if any human is
that stupid. I say their behavior is evidence that they are involved in this fake "Terrorist Attack On America".
[/p][h3]If it looks and acts like a bomb...[/h3]When an airplane crash has all the characteristics of a bomb, there is a good chance that it
was a bomb.[/p]I think a more sensible explanation for Flight 77 is that it never crashed into the Pentagon. Rather, the Pentagon fired a missile at the building, and they selected a section of the building that was being renovated in order to reduce deaths. I think they also set the missile to explode before it hit the building in order to reduce damage.[/p]The plane that witnesses saw flying around the Pentagon may have been Flight 77, but that plane did not crash into the Pentagon.
[/p][h3]What happened to Flight 77?[/h3]There were pieces of an airplane scattered around the Pennsylvania countryside. Everybody assumes that all of those pieces belong to Flight 93, but maybe Flight 77 crashed (or was shot down) over there, also.This would explain why so many people are asking why the Flight 93 debris was scattered over many miles, as this site explains:
[a href="vny!://www.flight93crash.com/" target="_blank"]vny!://www.flight93crash.com/[/a]
[/p][h3]Joe Vialls defends the Pentagon![/h3]Joe Vialls tells us:[blockquote]Forget the media hype about "Arab hijackers" because there were none on board any of the aircraft on 11 September.[/blockquote]Amazingly, a person who claims the planes were controlled by remote control is defending the Pentagon. Was he bribed or threatened? Or is he just a nutty guy?I don't know, but I responded by writing an article in response to Joe Vialls:
[a href="vny!://thewebfairy.com/nerdcities/Hufschmid/PentagonPlaneCrash2.html" target="_blank"]Response to Vialls[/a][/p]If you never saw Joe's site:
[a href="vny!://www.geocities.com/vialls/" target="_blank"]vny!://www.geocities.com/vialls/[/a]
[/p][h3]Do you still believe the Arabs flew a 757 into the Pentagon?[/h3]Check out the photos at this site:
[a href="vny!://www.architectureweek.com/2001/1003/news_1-1.html" target="_blank"]vny!://www.architectureweek.com/2001/1003/news_1-1.html[/a]On page 2 of that document is an image with the caption: "Damage visible in one of the open-air courtyards between building rings."The article doesn't identify the courtyard, but if it was one directly behind the crash site, the airplane did not penetrate it. That means the entire airplane compressed itself like an accordion in the outer ring.[/p]The following document has a good image of the Pentagon and how the plane hit. Fortunately (for the Pentagon) the image does not show the highway, trees, or railings, nor how low the plane was to the ground. A more appropriate drawing would be a side view that shows a 757 only slightly above the cars, and how it then descended to only a few millimeters above the grass.
[a href="vny!://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/graphics/attack/pentagon_7.html" target="_blank"]vny!://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/graphics/attack/pentagon_7.html[/a]
[/p][/td][/tr][/tbody][/table]
From: vny!://thewebfairy.com/nerdcities/Hufschmid/PentagonPlaneCrash.html
This sounds an awful lot like the "We never landed on the moon" and "There's a worldwide organisation of Satanist Covens stealing 50,000 children a year for murder and ritual torture" conspiracy fallacies.
There are many logical hole in it anf them, not the least of which is how do you keep the secret? If the Government can't even keep a budget from leaking, how would they manage the mouths of the thousands of people necessary to keep this secret?
Quote from: Witch on Feb 20 06 08:36This sounds an awful lot like the "We never landed on the moon" and "There's a worldwide organisation of Satanist Covens stealing 50,000 children a year for murder and ritual torture" conspiracy fallacies.[/div] [/div]There are many logical hole in it anf them, not the least of which is how do you keep the secret?[div] [div]If the Government can't even keep a budget from leaking, how would they manage the mouths of the thousands of people necessary to keep this secret?
i think its completely different. the 'satanic rings' are an allegation made with no supporting evidence.
as for the moon, there is an massive amount of evidence showing that we did in fact land on the moon.
the pentagon pictures however show a lot of thngs that just don't make sense. there's a lot of evidence that can't be explained away. some of it appears impossible to explain at all if you believe the official story.
i don't think that this is the same kind of baseless accusations as in the satanic cult stories or the 'moon hoax' stories.
why would the govt want to cover up the fact that it was/wasnt a plane? maybe it was one of their own missles?
i can't belive i am even responding to this stuff ;(
[A href="vny!://www.chemicalelements.com/elements/al.html"]vny!://www.chemicalelements.com/elements/al.html[/A]
[A href="vny!://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_fuel"]vny!://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_fuel[/A]
what happens when you add these two things together,add a high speed impact? you will have a hull that shreds and vapourizes,leaving only small amounts of residual alumminum at the scene which was discovered. the picture posted above shows an inner ring exit point not a first ring entry point.obviously the wings would have followed the path of the body into the hole.small hole because the plane would be beahving like a missle as it plowed into the building.eventually as it reached the inner core/rings the remaining hull would have been reduced down to very little that was then consumed in the subsequent fire. no missle,no drone jet,no military jet...just a hijacked boeing with passengers and a crew.
you will have a hull that shreds and vapourizes,leaving only small amounts of residual alumminum at the scene which was discovered.
no way the entire plane and all abord will be reduced to tiny fragments. huge metal engines, tons (literally) of other parts- all that stuff turned into confettii? i don't think so.
[/div][div]obviously the wings would have followed the path of the body into the hole.small hole because the plane would be beahving like a missle as it plowed into the building.eventually as it reached
that's a very tortured explanation that just about defies the laws of physics.
the wings would 'obviously follow' the body of the plane into the hole instead of coming off and/or breaking apart? how could they when the plane itself was blocking the hole?
what supposedly caued the wings to 'follow' the body into the hole?
in an impact they would be flung away, and there's no force that's going to suck them into the hole all nice and neat like a vacuum cleaner. it's a ridiculous attempt at making something sound plausible. i call bullshit.
So where is N644AA today if it did not impact the Pentagon ?
Quote from: Sepoy on Feb 21 06 07:38So where is N644AA today if it did not impact the Pentagon ?
That's a damn good question, and I doubt we'll ever really know. It sure doesn't look like a plane hit the Pentagon to me.
Recycled???
You cannot diagnose an aircraft accident based on a few grainy pictures. Think of the ValuJet 592 crash that left barely a trace of evidence. And another thing, the Pentagon is no ordinary building.
(//vny!://www.flight592.com/slideshow/images/image144.jpg)
ValuJet 592 went down in [a href="vny!://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/transportation/may96/valujet_crash_5-13.html"]a flat, desolate expanse of the Florida Everglades[/a], which made many parts of the jet much more difficult to find. They did found more than half of the plane, FAR more wreckage than is evident in the Pentagon images.
"MIAMI (CNN) -- Investigators think they may have solved one of the mysteries surrounding the crash of ValuJet Flight 592. That is, where are the missing pieces of the plane?Since the crash on May 11, investigators have [a href="vny!://www.cnn.com/US/9606/03/valujet/link_debris.jpg"]located only half of the plane[/a], and searchers have recovered relatively small pieces of human remains and wreckage. [/p]But Monday, divers said they had found a crater within the main crater which may contain large aircraft parts and the remains of many of the 110 victims. The new crater, located beneath the limestone rock base, is about 20 feet wide and 30 feet deep."[/p][a href="vny!://www.cnn.com/US/9606/03/valujet/index.html"]vny!://www.cnn.com/US/9606/03/valujet/index.html[/a]
Quote from: Life on Feb 21 06 01:47You cannot diagnose an aircraft accident based on a few grainy pictures. Think of the ValuJet 592 crash that left barely a trace of evidence. And another thing, the Pentagon is no ordinary building. [/DIV]
Exactly. Remember Bill Frist on Terry Schiavo?
[a href="vny!://www.physics911.net/sagadevan.htm"]vny!://www.physics911.net/sagadevan.htm[/a]
If a 757 were placed on the ground on its engine nacelles (i..e., gear retracted as in flight profile), its nose would be almost 20 feet above the ground.
Ergo, for the aircraft to impact the ground floor of the Pentagon, Hanjour would have needed to have flown in with the engines buried 10-feet deep in the Pentagon lawn. Some pilot!
Hay, I haven't read the rest of this thread, and I'm not terribly knowledgeable about the pentagon strike, but couldn't the fuselage have hit the first floor if the plane was on a slight downward angle and hit just in front of the building first, snapping off the wings (and wing-based turbines)? Just a thought.
I am pretty damn, (can I say damn?), sure Stephen Harper had something to do with it!!!(//vny!://discoverseattle.net/forums/richedit/smileys/Angry/2.gif)
[A href="vny!://tinypic.com/view/?pic=ofzlac"][img alt="Image hosting by TinyPic" src="vny!://tinypic.com/ofzlab.jpg[/img][/A]