Hiroshima miniatures at Peace Museum[h3 style="font-weight: normal; font-family: Verdana;"]These Hiroshima miniatures, illustrating the devastation caused by the bomb, are incredibly provoking. But it's especially powerful seeing the before and after miniatures. Before, a quiet, almost quaint town...[/h3][a href="vny!://www.flickr.com/photos/89434448@N00/32167147/"][img]vny!://tinselman.typepad.com/tinselman/images/hiroshima_01.jpg" title="Hiroshima_01" alt="Hiroshima_01" border="0" height="180" width="250"][/a] [/p] In an flash, 10,000 civilians were killed in Hiroshima. In the days and weeks to come, thousands more would die. The hypocenter (the orange sphere) was triggered at about 600 meters above Aioi bridge. This miniature illustrates that exact point in time.[/p] Here's another Hiroshima model, in striking before-and-after format.
(click for full size images)
[/p] [a href="vny!://www.flickr.com/photos/24203467@N00/96793504/in/photostream/"][img alt="Hiroshima_02_1" title="Hiroshima_02_1" src="vny!://tinselman.typepad.com/tinselman/images/hiroshima_02_1.jpg" border="0" height="118" width="165"][/a][span style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);"] [/span]
[/p] [a href="vny!://www.flickr.com/photos/24203467@N00/96793533/in/photostream/"][img alt="Hiroshima_03_1" title="Hiroshima_03_1" src="vny!://tinselman.typepad.com/tinselman/images/hiroshima_03_1.jpg" border="0" height="118" width="165"][/a]
[/p] [a href="vny!://www.flickr.com/photos/24203467@N00/96793433/in/photostream/"][img alt="Hiroshima_04_1" title="Hiroshima_04_1" src="vny!://tinselman.typepad.com/tinselman/images/hiroshima_04_1.jpg" border="0" height="118" width="165"][/a] [/p] [a href="vny!://www.flickr.com/photos/24203467@N00/96793462/in/photostream/"][img alt="Hiroshima_05_1" title="Hiroshima_05_1" src="vny!://tinselman.typepad.com/tinselman/images/hiroshima_05_1.jpg" border="0" height="118" width="165"][/a] [/p] • [a href="vny!://www.flickr.com/photos/65193603@N00/86006376/in/photostream/"]Additional Photos of Museum[/a][/p][a href="vny!://www.flickr.com/photos/65193603@N00/86006376/in/photostream/"][/a]
No matter how many pictures I've seen, and articles I've read, I can't begin to grasp the hell that was Hiroshima after the bomb.
The saddest thing is....................... we haven't learnt a thing.
Chernobyl is pretty freaky too.
Well, I am sorry that it came to that but I don;t regret it.
That is seriously what you get when you attack the west. It is a reminder -- a reminder of what will happen if you attack us. Countries are still learning this lesson to this day. If we want to go with atrocities, the bomb does not come lose to the degenerate behavior of Japanese solders in China and Korea.
Sure it stopped the war but Japan got it's just desert as well.
I have no pity.
Gunta wrote:
Well, I am sorry that it came to that but I don;t regret it.
That is seriously what you get when you attack the west. It is a reminder -- a reminder of what will happen if you attack us. Countries are still learning this lesson to this day. If we want to go with atrocities, the bomb does not come lose to the degenerate behavior of Japanese solders in China and Korea.
[FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff00"]Sure it stopped the war but Japan got it's just desert as well.[/FONT]
I have no pity.
NOBODY deserve to get bombed, gunta. NOBODY. The atomic bomb killed more civillians than soldiers. War is ugly business, it should NEVER happen.
I would dare you to say those words to any of the remaining survivors in person. Tell that to her that she deserves her fate.
(//vny!://www.dlbfilms.com/-fzpage/FZ,-Hiroshima-survivor.jpg)
Nobody deserved to get bombed but I wouldn't be here if it didn't happen. Grandpa was part of the huge group that was going to invade Japan if the bombing never happend. If the invasion took place it was estimated that millions would have died fighting on both sides. So I guess the lesson I've taken is yes it happend, I wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for it, BUT I must never let this happen again.
And Japanese soldiers killed millions of Chinese civilians. Hell, they killed many more as well in other Asian countries. I am sorry, the people are the power behind the army. Even in a fascist state like WW2 Japan. They are responsible and they were punished. Pictures of Japanese kids doesn't matter. For every one child sitting in his nice clothing from Japan that was instantly killed by the blast, there is a hundred murdered children that slowly died from gun shot wounds, bayonets, rape and torture in China.
Sportsdude wrote:
Nobody deserved to get bombed but I wouldn't be here if it didn't happen. Grandpa was part of the huge group that was going to invade Japan if the bombing never happend. If the invasion took place it was estimated that millions would have died fighting on both sides. So I guess the lesson I've taken is yes it happend, I wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for it, BUT I must never let this happen again.
In Okinawa, woman hiding in caves from the Americans were ordered to strangle their crying babies to death by the Japanese soldiers. They were nuts. They were a threat and needed to be taken out. They needed to be put in their place. Unconditional surrender and hmm, we will think about not pillaging your cities and executing everybody in an army uniform.
One thing about me is I don;t support unprovoked attacks like Iraq etc. I speak out against them, especially when innocents are dieing. But....if you attack me or my buddies, you are dead. Period.
In Okinawa, woman hiding in caves from the Americans were ordered to strangle their crying babies to death by the Japanese soldiers.
That was because they were brain washed into thinking that the allied forces were these savage beast and were going to rape and murder them when they would come ashore, when in reality the emperial forces were that way. Remember they were emperial forces not the whole entire army just like there was a Nazi army and a regular german army.
And the fact that they were irrational and brainwashed is a defense for not subduing them efficiently? al a kaboom. I'd say that there irrationality by itself justifies subduing them at any means necessary.
I guess there is a difference between the Japanese using brainwashing to convince it's people of the enemies savageness and the Chinese just showing it's people all the dead bodies that are carved up on the ground.
No I'm saying that evil brain washed innocent people. Just like families in Germany didn't know what Hitler was doing to the Jews because no one knew of it and if they did they were killed. Its Propoganda that fuels wars and if you are behind something you are lead to believe anything and it becomes Animal Farm like.
And besides, as Nuremberg trials had shown us, brainwashing is not an excuse for inhuman behavior. I understand their motives for jumping off cliffs, murdering their own children but it just demonstrates more and more that Japan needed to be destroyed. Lucky for them that the Emperor decided to break his silence and stop the war mongers that had taken control of his country.
It's impossible for us to understand the situation in context due to the passage of time- our distance from it clouds and distorts the entire event. It seems at the time there was no other realistically viable option, and I doubt the decision to drop the A-bomb was made casually.
That doesn't mean I'm in favor of what was done, what I mean is that sometimes the only choices you have are bad ones.
It's chilling to see how the city was virtually wiped clean off the map, especially when you realize that the bomb they dropped was a very, very tiny one compared to the ones that would be used today. A full-sized nuke today would pretty much remove Japan from the world map down to a couple of hundred feet below sea level. It's hard to grasp the effect a current nuke would have; it's just not easy for the mind to scale to that level of destruction.
When I worked at Hanford, one of the nukies there remarked that the bomb used on Hiroshima was so tiny, "they wouldn't even waste their time building one that small these days".
He said it's impossible to visualize the destruction a current bomb would cause, but that to get an idea of it you could go to the top of a 50-story building, turn in a complete circle and imagine that everything you see -every single thing- is completely gone.
That was kind of sobering. (//forums/richedit/smileys/Sad/11.gif)
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Full Disclosure: Yes, a long time ago I worked at Hanford ("Westinghouse-Hanford" back then) for Battele and Rockwell and a few other groups. I'm well-acquainted with the nukies, the 'glow-to guys' (ha ha) and SWP, SNM, and all that other junk. I've also done work for other nuke farms like Sandia, Lawrence Livermore Labs, INEL, Rocky Flats and GE Vallecitos. I've spent more time in poop-suits than I care to remember. I was superficially contaminated three times at Hanford (doh!) so I don't have very fond memories of it, to be honest.
TehBorken wrote:
Full Disclosure: Yes, a long time ago I worked at Hanford ("Westinghouse-Hanford" back then) for Battele and Rockwell and a few other groups. I'm well-acquainted with the nukies, the 'glow-to guys' (ha ha) and SWP, SNM, and all that other junk. I've also done work for other nuke farms like Sandia, Lawrence Livermore Labs, INEL, Rocky Flats and GE Vallecitos. I've spent more time in poop-suits than I care to remember. I was superficially contaminated three times at Hanford (doh!) so I don't have very fond memories of it, to be honest.
Oy, TB. That does not sound fun. I have a cousin in Richland whom I remember visiting a couple of times as a kid. We would actually go fishing in the Columbia and Snake Rivers in the area—and eat the salmon we caught. Now that I've learned about some of the weird health problems that sailboarders in the area are dealing with I'm wondering about some of those fish (and I'll bet these days there are no fish in the river at all).
Dissident wrote:
Now that I've learned about some of the weird health problems that sailboarders in the area are dealing with I'm wondering about some of those fish (and I'll bet these days there are no fish in the river at all).
There are still fish in the river, they're just 50 feet long, glow in the dark, and have segemented tentacles with a dozen basket-ball-sized eyes on the end. But I'm sure it has nothing to do with the radiation!
lol: please post pics of these fish. They must be a sight to see!
Dissident wrote:
lol: please post pics of these fish. They must be a sight to see!
I think this one lost its tentacles....
(//vny!://www3.metrowestdailynews.com/images/columnists/monster%20hanging.jpg)
Or maybe this was one of them....
(//vny!://www.rovang.org/wg/pics/goofish.jpg)
Very good, TB. I'm laughing myself into a better mood. Bet that second one is particularly tasty.
Oh yeah polluted rivers in the u.s. are common. There are huge and I mean HUGE catfish in the mississippi river (Some get up to 100+ pounds, normal size for a catfish is 5 to 10 pounds) but these fish are not health. They are chalk full of mercury because thats what is in most of the river, mercury. Its only safe to eat those fish once a month and pregnant women should not eat them (obviously). Rivers are polluted like you wouldn't believe. When I get my camera (this week sometime) I'll go down to the farm and go on the river bed beach and take a picture of the water (its not clean).
Why do the serious threads here turn into circle jerks of pointless rhetoric?
Anyhow, Yes Tehborken nukes are scary but it isn't really the device itself I am trying to justify. It is the "spanking" that japan received. Whether it was done by a nuke or another weapon, guns, knives etc etc is not an issue. I think if we look at the threat that Japan was and it's atrocities it is safe to say they got what they deserved. If my country went and started murdering and raping American children and woman I wouldn't be too surprised if the US bombed me. In fact, I think that is why many Japanese don't hold grudges against the yanks. The basically recognize that they deserved it for all the suffering they had caused. Now I look at it as both strategically efficient and as a PUNISHMENT. Many can say, "Yes, it was necessary" but then ignore the fact that they had it coming to them completely by principle.
While you have a point Gunta. Thats merely of Japan's culture thats inbeded into them that they now realise when they look at history in that context. It also happend to Germany as well. Its called "Never again" syndrome. When one society is taken over by a bunch of pyschos Tojo in Japan and Hitler in Germany, Marco in Spain and Mousoulini in Italy they end up making safe guards that those types of cultures can never come out again and the become pacifists. This should have happend to the U.S. after the civil war but it didn't and look at what it brought us. It sort of happend in Canada too. The FLQ basically killed any sort of militant uprising in Quebec. The seperatist realised that in order for them to reach there goal they had to do it politically not through violence. This hasn't happend in the u.s. though because the right wing fanatics still support bombing abortion clincs and throwing women in prison for abortions.
Gunta wrote:
Why do the serious threads here turn into circle jerks of pointless rhetoric?
I don't know, but I'll bet you have a theory.
Anyhow, Yes Tehborken nukes are scary but it isn't really the device itself I am trying to justify. It is the "spanking" that japan received.
I'm having a hard time figuring out where we're disagreeing. Are you one of those people who can't take "yes" for an answer? (//forums/richedit/smileys/Happy/14.gif)
So you are saying that the bombing of Japan was an appropriate punishment?
And yes, I have a theory for everything.
Gunta wrote:
So you are saying that the bombing of Japan was an appropriate punishment?[/b]
Dude, don't put words in my mouth, I'll just spit them out.
What I said was "It seems at the time there was no other realistically viable option". The Japanese were vowing to fight to the death (and they most likely would have). The decision was made in part as an attempt to avoid thousands (or tens of thousands) of American casualties. It wasn't, by all appearances, done as "punishment" per se.
And yes, I have a theory for everything.
So does my 12-year old, but (shockingly) he's wrong a lot of the time. I'd be more impressed if you had a Theory Of Everything.
I am confused now.
And justifiably so.
First I state:
Many can say, "Yes, it was necessary" but then ignore the fact that they had it coming to them completely by principle.
Principle has nothing to do with whether it was NECESSARY which you are now claiming as the soul justification. Principle on the situation reflects the retribution that occurred when the bomb was dropped and PUNISHED the Japanese......
So you say you agree with me and I hate to take yes as an answer, then I reiterate the statement in the form of a question and you get all perturbed and sarcastic like a passive aggressive dungeons and dragons fanatic claiming that I am putting words in your mouth.
And BTW, when it is in the form of a question, it isn't putting words in your mouth. I could only do that if it was a STATEMENT and I was advertising that statement as your opinion.
LOL
[SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic"]And yes, I have a theory for everything.[/SPAN]
So does my 12-year old, but (shockingly) he's wrong a lot of the time. I'd be more impressed if you had a Theory [SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic"]Of[/SPAN] Everything.
and what's this supposed to mean?
Gunta wrote:
Principle has nothing to do with whether it was NECESSARY which you are now claiming as the soul justification.
[span style="font-weight: normal;"]No, I never claimed that. I said that they used it (the apparent willingness to fight to the last man) as justification and because of that they apparently felt (decided) it was "necessary". (And it's "sole" justification, not "soul".) [/span]
Principle on the situation reflects the retribution that occurred when the bomb was dropped and PUNISHED the Japanese......
I confess I could not parse this sentence fragment. (//forums/richedit/smileys/Sad/10.gif)
[/div] [div style="font-style: italic;"]
So you say you agree with me and I hate to take yes as an answer, then I reiterate the statement in the form of a question and you get all perturbed and sarcastic like a passive aggressive dungeons and dragons fanatic claiming that I am putting words in your mouth.[/div]
Lol, I don't know what to make of this sentence (claim? assertion?). There are no hidden meanings in what I wrote. I think you're reading a lot more into it that was there.
[div]
And BTW, when it is in the form of a question, it isn't putting words in your mouth.
Well, actually it is putting words in my mouth- by assigning an interpretation or rephrasing what I said and then making it appear as though you're just trying to confirm or clarify what I really did say. Again, look at what I wrote and take it at face value. You can analyze it all you want, but it'll be a waste of time. I meant what I wrote, and wrote what I meant. That's all.
I could only do that if it was a STATEMENT and I was advertising that statement as your opinion.
No, but this is a common method of being disingenuous. As in, "By the way, have you stopped beating your wife?" (It presupposes that you are, in fact, beating your wife.)
LOL
Okay, that part I understand. It means "Lots Of Love", right? (//forums/richedit/smileys/Happy/14.gif)
Gunta wrote:
So does my 12-year old, but (shockingly) he's wrong a lot of the time. I'd be more impressed if you had a Theory Of Everything.
[/div] [div style="font-style: italic;"]and what's this supposed to mean?
It's a reference to the long-sought after "Theory Of Everything" (TOE), a theory of theoretical physics and mathematics that fully explains and links together all known physical phenomena. At first Einstien's Theory Of Relativity was thought to possibly be the TOE, but it falls short in a number of areas, primarily quantum mechanics.