And what should fathers "earn" for doing all the things they do? This is the most f*cked up full-of-shit "study" I've ver seen. What a load of crap.
I'm a stay-at-home dad, so where's my paycheck? Oh, that's right- I do it because I'm a parent, not for the big bucks. Gee, that's what I thought marriage and raising kids was all about- a partnership where each person helps to accomplish the goal of raising the kids. And we're supposed to pay mothers for simply doing their part? Excuse me whilst I go puketh.
Of course if you take the study and then factor in all of the stuff they don't count (free food and housing, medical care, a personal car, etc) then you realize that this study is a huge load of sexist bullshit.
[hr style="width: 100%; height: 2px;"] [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]By Ellen Wulfhorst[/font][/font][/p] [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]NEW YORK (Reuters) - A full-time stay-at-home mother would earn $134,121 a year if paid for all her work, an amount similar to a top U.S. ad executive, a marketing director or a judge, according to a study released on Wednesday.[/font][/font][/p] [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]A mother who works outside the home would earn an extra $85,876 annually on top of her actual wages for the work she does at home, according to the study by Waltham, Massachusetts-based compensation experts Salary.com.[/font][/font][/p] [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]To reach the projected pay figures, the survey calculated the earning power of the 10 jobs respondents said most closely comprise a mother's role -- housekeeper, day-care teacher, cook, computer operator, laundry machine operator, janitor, facilities manager, van driver, chief executive and psychologist.[/font][/font][/p] [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]"You can't put a dollar value on it. It's worth a lot more," said Kristen Krauss, 35, as she hurriedly packed her four children, all aged under 8, into a minivan in New York while searching frantically for her keys. "Just look at me."[/font][/font][/p] [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]Employed mothers reported spending on average 44 hours a week at their outside job and 49.8 hours at their home job, while the stay-at-home mother worked 91.6 hours a week, it showed.[/font][/font][/p] [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]An estimated 5.6 million women in the United States are stay-at-home mothers with children under age 15, according to the most recent U.S. Census Bureau data. [/font][/font][/p] [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]NOT 'JUST A MOM'[/font][/font][/p] [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]"It's good to acknowledge the job that's being done, and that it's not that these women are settling for 'just a mom,"' said Bill Coleman, senior vice president of compensation at Salary.com. "They are actually doing an awful lot."[/font][/font][/p] [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, some 26 million women with children under age 18 work in the nation's paid labor force.[/font][/font][/p] [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]Both employed and stay-at-home mothers said the lowest-paying job of housekeeper was their most common role, with employed mothers working 7.2 hours a week as housekeeper and stay-at-home mothers working 22.1 hours in that role.[/font][/font][/p] [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]"Every husband I've ever spoken to said, 'I'm keeping my job. You keep yours.' It's a tough one," said Gillian Forrest, 39, a stay-at-home mother of 22-month-old Alex in New York. "I don't know if you could put a dollar amount on it but it would be nice to get something."[/font][/font][/p] [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]To compile its study, Salary.com surveyed about 400 mothers online over the last two months.[/font][/font][/p] [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]Salary.com offers a Web site (vny!://www.mom.salary.com) where mothers can calculate what they could be paid, based on how many children they have, where they live and other factors. The site will produce a printable document that looks like a paycheck, Coleman said.[/font][/font][/p] [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]"It's obviously not negotiable," he said.[/font][/font][/p] [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]On average, the mother who works outside the house earns a base pay of $62,798 for a 40-hour at-home work week and $23,078 in overtime; a stay-at-home mother earned a base pay of $45,697 and $88,424 in overtime, it said.[/font][/font][/p] [font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]In a Salary.com study conducted last year, stay-at-home mothers earned $131,471. The potential earnings of mothers who work outside the home was not calculated in the previous study. (That's because they'd NEVER make that wagein the real world doing what the study considers as "work". -tb)
[/font][/font][/p][hr style="width: 100%; height: 2px;"][a href="vny!://reuters.myway.com/article/20060503/2006-05-03T090712Z_01_N02301962_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-LIFE-WORK-DC.html"]Full-Of-Shit-Study[/a]
And nobody is asking WHO should pay those mothers ?
Well, obviously the kids should ! :)
I mean, if kids can now sue their parents, well then, I think they should pay their parents for parenting !
I read this as a 'hypothetical' amount that 'mothers' are 'worth' (IF you were inclinded to put a dollar value on it).....not that anyone should, or is going to pay them. I believe this frame of thinking came about from some womens own insecurities and from some mens lack of value for a mothers' role. Stemming from the 50's where the thinking was, 'a womans' place is in the home', a new generation of women decided it should weigh in with a monetary value.
Men knew their 'value' because they could read it every week in black and white, where a womans 'value' was more 'elusive'....not 'documented'.....it wasn't there for her to see, and it wasn't recognized by the 50's breadwinner. (I know.....nobody's value is based on how many zeros are on their paycheque.....I'm just playing the devils advocate here).
In spite of a somewhat rocky path in raising 3 kids, I'd do it all again, but I'd be lying if I didn't admit that there has been the odd occasion I've wondered what I may have accomplished had I chosen a different path. Of course I'm generalizing, but I think that men have a better opportunity to do that. For the most part (traditionally thinking) men are still able to persue carreers, with less restrictions when they have children. (I'm asking for it, aren't I....lol)
Anyways, that's where I believe this came about.
I agree TehBorken......that it truly IS about partnership and simply being a parent.....but you lost me on the free food and housing, personal car etc. part....lol. I like to think I earned every kilometer, and allowed hubby to dine on some pretty fine cuisine at a much 'nicer price' than the local Burger Kings (standard fare for him before we married). And that's my 9cents worth. (that's 2 cents plus overtime)
Don't take it personally, P.C.... But I wouldn't like to be married to a woman who refers to me as "hubby". Few men would.
Not to pick a fight or anything, but my wife calls me hubby on occasion and I've never thought to be offended. Am I missing something?
EDIT: Ok, on-topic:
First off, the study should refer to stay-at-home "parents" rather than "moms". Things have changed, and assuming that the custodial/stay-at-home parent is female is really outdated thinking.
Second, and I think this might have been what Borken was saying, it's not balanced to simply look at the amount of hours a stay-at-home parent puts in and then ignore all the benefits. If only one parent works, then that parent's income is generally paying for the housing, food, entertainment, transportation etc of the stay-at-home parent. So framing the conversation in such a way as to imply that the stay-at-home-parent gets nothing is incorrect IMO.
Like TB said, in a family each person does their part.
tenkani wrote:
Not to pick a fight or anything, but my wife calls me hubby on occasion and I've never thought to be offended. Am I missing something?
-------------------------------------------
If you are the same tenkani who started the thread about that church, what's its name again, over on Discovervancouver which went on for more than twenty pages, then that would explain something. As I remember, you told of yourself that you are homosexual and even mentioned your lover.
Don't take it personally, you said that yourself.
If you are the same tenkani who started the thread about that church, what's its name again, over on Discovervancouver which went on for more than twenty pages, then that would explain something. As I remember, you told of yourself that you are homosexual and even mentioned your lover.
Don't take it personally, you said that yourself. Sorry, what is your point?
That wasn't really Mutilated Mind. That was Ellie-May's brother Jethro. You know, Jed's brother?
What was that ?
tenkani wrote:
[em][/em] [div style="font-style: italic;"]Sorry, what is your point?[/div]
Near as I can make out, MM is in some awe of your unparalleled ability to start long threads on the DV message board.
These studies are right wing proganda that is trying to send a message to mothers and future mothers that they don't belong in the work place after having kids.
tenkani wrote: First off, the study should refer to stay-at-home "parents" rather than "moms". Things have changed, and assuming that the custodial/stay-at-home parent is female is really outdated thinking.
Agreed, tenkani....I was referring to it as 'traditional' thinking....but outdated is more accurate. To clarify.....I don't agree with this studys' findings, but I DO understand how they came about.
Second, and I think this might have been what Borken was saying, it's not balanced to simply look at the amount of hours a stay-at-home parent puts in and then ignore all the benefits. If only one parent works, then that parent's income is generally paying for the housing, food, entertainment, transportation etc of the stay-at-home parent. So framing the conversation in such a way as to imply that the stay-at-home-parent gets nothing is incorrect IMO.
And I agree with your second point, if we were talking about the real world. But if keeping to the wheres and whys specifically set out in this 'study', I would say. "If only one parent works, then that parent's income is generally paying for the housing, food, entertainment, transportation etc of the stay-at-home parent". Basing my comments on the content of the study, I would respond, the working parent is only able to work because their partner has assumed the other role.....making it a 50/50 agreement. PERSONALLY......I think assigning a dollar value couldn't (shouldn't, wouldn't) even come in to play.....the very fact that it's a 50/50 agreement.....why would one have to take it any further than that.
And, by the way MM.....as it would be foolish to call him by name....I chose to use what I think of as an affectionate term for my husband.[/DIV]
[FONT face="Arial Narrow"]BTW, I have a lot of respect for stay-at-home parents who take their jobs seriously. I also know from experience that some of them spend most of their time watching TV and playing video games. I guess my point is that every individual situation is different so making statements like "a full-time stay-at-home mother would earn $134,121 a year if paid for all her work" is the kind of massive generalization that does little to change anyone's opinion. Those that already agree with the sentiment will nod knowingly. Those that disagree will be disgusted and hold even more firmly to their views.[/FONT]
[FONT face="Arial Narrow"][/FONT]
[FONT face="Arial Narrow"]Just so I'm not misunderstood, I repeat, stay-at-home-parents who take their role seriously are awsome. Those who don't are not deserving of any particular accolades.[/FONT]
I think I'm doing a very poor job of dividing my comments from what I feel, and what I feel the study is trying to say.. My first post was basically playing devils advocate. I GET what they are trying to 'imply'.....I don't necessarily agree with it....but I get it. I think if this were a study done in the 50's, it may have had some value, if only to put a spotlight on the incredible job of the stay at home parents (which at the time was predominately women). Other than that, I see no value in it, in 2006.
I've raised 3 kids, and the thought of what it would be worth in dollars, was something that never occurred to me......still doesn't. I enjoyed what I was doing and I like to think I did it well. It's the oldest cliche in the book, but there are some things that you just can't put a dollar figure on. (or shouldn't put a dollar figure on). 'Money Can't Buy You Love', and it certainly won't make you a better parent either.
P.C. wrote:
And, by the way MM.....as it would be foolish to call him by name....I chose to use what I think of as an affectionate term for my husband.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
MM stands for Mutilated Mind and you know it... why would it be foolish to call me by my nick ? Aren't you making things up a little ?
Your freedom of choice is not under attack here, no need to take that attitude. I stated my opinion about this "affectionate term". And even after I did so, you are still free to use it !
See ?
Yeah Mut, we see
MM, your posts make the Jesus cry.
Are you this negative and belligerent in person?
Mutilated Mind:
P.C. wrote:
And, by the way MM.....as it would be foolish to call him by name....I chose to use what I think of as an affectionate term for my husband.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
MM stands for Mutilated Mind and you know it... why would it be foolish to call me by my nick ? Aren't you making things up a little ?
Your freedom of choice is not under attack here, no need to take that attitude. I stated my opinion about this "affectionate term". And even after I did so, you are still free to use it !
See ?
Ummm....I'd have to say I don't see. I was responding to your criticsism of my use of the term 'hubby'....it had nothing to do with your name, your handle or your nick.
My attitude is good, and I don't make things up.....(hubby would agree)
[FONT size=4]Hey kids, don't post drunk.[/FONT]
This has been a public service anouncement brought to you by Trolls Anonymous.
I second that.....[img style="CURSOR: pointer" onclick=url(this.src); src="vny!://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/nahrung/a025.gif" border=0]
LOL.
Best emoticon EVAR (//vny!://www.motleycrow.com/ImageHost/yahoo.gif)
ROFL....Just goes to show ya.....best is in the eye of the beholder. This exuberant lil guy gets my vote.(//vny!://www.motleycrow.com/ImageHost/yahoo.gif)LOL !!!
He makes me think of Peanuts for some reason.
I used to watch Peanuts specials all the time as a kid.
Good times...
Was it ever popular in Canada?
(//vny!://www.motleycrow.com/ImageHost/dog.gif) [the closest I've got to a Snoopy emoticon]
(//vny!://www.twosheep.com/blog/blogpics/656.jpg) Loved Peanuts.....VERY popular here. It was one of the few things my dad and I actually had in common when I was growing up.....lol.....we both loved Snoopy.
I identified with Charlie Brown quite a bit.
The world is full of Lucies, and Snoopies make all the drones uncomfortable.
Ya, but he was a great dancer.
Was? Is he dead? Please don't say it's so. :o
LOL Chicklet......only his creator. [img style="CURSOR: pointer" onclick=url(this.src); src="vny!://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/traurig/a010.gif" border=0]
Snoopy lives !!!!!!
Gawwwwd....that sounded awful. Sorry......didn't mean to sound so flippant about the great Charles Schultz.
*phew* My day was just about ruined. Although it sad that Snoppy's creator is gone.
I always felt for Pig Pen. He was so cute.
Linus was the cutest.
Poor little guy.
Does he still carry that old rag around??
Had a bit of a thing for Schroeder.....but Linus always won my heart....*sigh*
(//vny!://www.schulzmuseum.org/store/images/1120-linus-tn.jpg)
Funny how this topic has almost come full circle.....Lucy would be right in there calculating her double overtime. [A onclick="addImg('icon/icon_smile_big.gif')" href="jvascript:void(0)"](//vny!://www.discovervancouver.com/forum/icon_smile_big.gif)[/A]
(//vny!://www.motleycrow.com/ImageHost/catlol.jpg)
[FONT color=#ffffff size=1].[/FONT]
ROFL
(//vny!://www.someblogs.com/4kidsmomndad/archives/yawning.jpg)
Teehee!
(//vny!://www.motleycrow.com/ImageHost/20918345_bde6fc2d5a_m.jpg)
tenkani wrote:
<DIV><IMG src="vny!://www.motleycrow.com/ImageHost/catlol.jpg"></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=1>.</FONT></DIV>
------------------------------------------------
How interesting, how behind a cute pussy face a horrible maw can lurk !
tenkani wrote:
I guess my point is that every individual situation is different so making statements like "a full-time stay-at-home mother would earn $134,121 a year if paid for all her work" is the kind of massive generalization that does little to change anyone's opinion. Those that already agree with the sentiment will nod knowingly.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
*Nods knowingly*
*yawn*
Yawn
(//vny!://www.funny-games.biz/pictures/cat/yawn2.jpg)
(//vny!://www.jrok.com/images/Charl3a.jpg).
(//vny!://www.robertbody.com/cats/images/1998-12-lance-laughing.jpg).
[img]vny!://www.minionware.com/KAIA/new-yawn.JPG" width=250 border=0].
.(//vny!://i1.tinypic.com/xpt2zm.jpg)
Coffee pls...
(//vny!://www.motleycrow.com/ImageHost/sleep06.jpg)
[A href="vny!://www.minionware.com/KAIA/futon-yawn.JPG[/img](//vny!://www.minionware.com/KAIA/futon-yawn-thumb.jpg%22%20width=250%20border=0%5D%5B/A%5D.%20%20%20%20Oooops....I%20got%20carried%20away.%20%20%5Bimg%20style=%22CURSOR:%20pointer%22%20onclick=url(this.src);%20src=%22vny!://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/verschiedene/c010.gif)
Ah!! Where do you find those emoticons?!?!?
Your emoticon-fu is impressive!!
P.S. yawn.
(//vny!://www.motleycrow.com/ImageHost/ATT2585073.jpg)
Awwww.....so who says wrinkles can't be beautiful.......too cute !
I'm suddenly tired and I can't stop yawning. This thread does something to me.
Why don't you have a little lie down?
(//vny!://www.motleycrow.com/ImageHost/ShowLetterdseeww.jpg)
Gee, I hope it wasn't anything I said.
[img id=Picture149 height=150 alt="" hspace=0 src="vny!://members.petfinder.org/~TN34/assets/images/kitty_sleeping_like_log.jpg" width=278 align=right border=0]
*Yawn* What, what? Oh, um no it wasn't you P.C but excuse me while I go back to my ..... *snore*
I....*yawn* ...think you're right *yawwwwwn*...maybe we should all have a nap...*sigh*
(//vny!://www.joe-ks.com/archives_jan2004/Sleep1.jpg)
tenkani wrote:
MM, your posts make the Jesus cry.
Are you this negative and belligerent in person?
-----------------------------------------------
Something wrong with my posts, tenkani ?
They are not fake and I am not faking small talk at any rate.
So, just leave Jesus out of it. I could level quite some criticism at yourself. Taking haughty and snotty airs doesn't make anyone right, and this goes certainly for Chicklet as well, who deserves an award in this respect.
Remember: you, too, are subject to improvement.
Or do you believe you have attained perfection ?
I certainly think tenkani is as close to perfect as they come. ;)
tenkani wrote:
<DIV>*yawn*</DIV>
--------------------------
Little, stupid games...
Chicklet wrote:
I certainly think tenkani is as close to perfect as they come. ;)
-------------------------------------------------
Oh, please... just spare me those inanities.
You people are just patting eachother's backs and giving eachother compliments, while essentially all these efforts are just spent in the service of ganging up on someone, and hardly show any superiority on the part of yourselves.
[original post deleted due to aggressive and negative nature]
MM, Somehow we've gotten off on a bad foot.
Is there anything I can do at this point to resolve this issue?
I don't find the sniping contests particularly useful and I hope you feel the same way.
Can we find a way to start fresh and avoid this bitchy back and forth?
Did I do something to you on DV that's causing all this strife?
If so, can we talk about it (you can PM me if you like)?
If the contribution to a thread is measured by how many negative comments you can get in one paragraph, I would say you have us all beat. Our games may be stupid, and they may be little.....but they are at the very least unoffensive to anyone.
I'm not sure what your problem is Mutilated Mind (that might be a little clue), but picking on people just for the sake of picking, is as small as you can get. Lighten up a bit....you might even enjoy yourself. Cake ?????
[A href="vny!://www.myhomecooking.net/german-chocolate-cake/images/chocolate-cake-with-slice-out-of-it.jpg" target=_top][img height=86 src="vny!://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:BJ-YM1YClrdfGM:vny!://www.myhomecooking.net/german-chocolate-cake/images/chocolate-cake-with-slice-out-of-it.jpg" width=100][/A]
P.C. wrote:
<DIV>Gawwwwd....that sounded awful. Sorry......didn't mean to sound so flippant about the great Charles Schultz.</DIV> <DIV></DIV>
Hey, good move, P.C.
Just in time to save your image. ;)
Mutilated Mind wrote:
You people are just patting eachother's backs and giving eachother compliments
Yeah, that really is terrible behavior. It's so awful how they're friendly and not acting like jerks and stuff. What is the world coming to????
(And "each other" is two words, or so they claimed in college. I suppose if my mind was mutilated I'd be a poor speller too.)
Mutilated Mind:
Hey, good move, P.C.
Just in time to save your image. ;)
I didn't know I had an image.....and if I do, should I take further steps to save it?
I was a great fan of Walt Disney and Walter Lantz.....and I think kittens are swell.
(how'my doin ?)
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"]Yes you need money for clothing and food; however, the true reward is to see your children grow up fit and healthy with a good education and hopefully a good job...So they can fend for themselves.
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"]I have seen three nephews and one niece grow up and I know how very difficult and expensive it is, I've also done my share of looking after them as well.
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"]There are a lot of single dads out there that do a good job just as much as a single mum can do, but single dads rarely get a mention.
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"][?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /][o:p] [/o:p]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"]Did they ask single parent dads? Nearly all couples have nicknames for there wives, or husbands, it doesn't mean they love them any more or any less.
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"][o:p] [/o:p]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"]Btw I'm from a single parent family; my mother has done a very good job at bringing us kids up...I have a mother that anyone would be proud of...and she got very little support from my father or the government.
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"][o:p] [/o:p]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"][o:p] [/o:p]
[SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; 12pt: ; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"]I do hope I've understood this thread*me scratching my head*..lol[/SPAN]
P.C. wrote:
Mutilated Mind: Hey, good move, P.C.
Just in time to save your image. ;)
I didn't know I had an image.....and if I do, should I take further steps to save it?
You get my meaning, P.C.
I should have written 'save face' or something but I am not a native English speaker so it's not always faultless.
I see no flaws in your English. I think I just didn't understand your implication.....as in, I didn't think I had said anything that required a need to 'save face'. Perhaps I'm missing something. (it sure wouldn't be the first time....lol)
P.C. wrote:
Awwww.....so who says wrinkles can't be beautiful.......too cute !
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Too cute, eh ?
While I understand you are saying this, you should know there are not a few breeds of dogs and maybe other animals which suffer all kinds of ailments because they are man-made, artificial critters and the outcome of the genetic tampering by man resulted in faulty anatomy or whatever...
Thus there is one - the Chihuaha who is constantly in danger of having one of his eyes popping out ; the cocker spaniel is another one which is prone to suffer from his spine ; etc. etc.
Sorry to disrupt your nice little tea party, ladies.
Mutilated Mind wrote:
P.C. wrote:
Awwww.....so who says wrinkles can't be beautiful.......too cute !
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Too cute, eh ?
While I understand you are saying this, you should know there are not a few breeds of dogs and maybe other animals which suffer all kinds of ailments because they are man-made, artificial critters and the outcome of the genetic tampering by man resulted in faulty anatomy or whatever...
Thus there is one - the Chihuaha who is constantly in danger of having one of his eyes popping out ; the cocker spaniel is another one which is prone to suffer from his spine ; etc. etc.
Sorry to disrupt your nice little tea party, ladies.
What does that have to do with dying your underwear?
I never died your underwear. :)