Why do Americans make such a big deal about their flag?
Gopher wrote:
Why do Americans make such a big deal about their flag?
Because we're conditioned to believe that it means something. It's just a symbol, but some people take it far too seriously.
In school we are brainwashed to think that the flag is sacred and cannot be messed with. Pledge of Alligance every single day. Spun war stories that never happened. Even revisionist history. But yet people love to use the flag as an accessory on their car. lol.
I personally think this country is too nationalistic, and not in a good way.
You guys say your allegiance in the morning, in the classrooms too, right? Don't understand that part. I went thru a similar system in Malaysia but that's just brain-washing you. Different in Australia, we do say the country and school oaths there but not everyday. Just on special occassions.
Yup you had to stand up every morning, put your hand on your heart and say it with the rest of the class while someone says it over the intercom as well. If you didn't do it you got detention and if you didn't do it again after that you got suspended.
Wow. Detention and suspension? I guess you guys do take your patriotic oath very seriously.
In middle school I started ignoring the pledge and I got in trouble for it.
(http://www.keynews.org/archives/pledge.jpg)
Yeah in middle school I started not doing the pledge and I got detention over it and then my superior said if I did it again I would get in school suspension for a day. They said I was disgracing the country by not standing up to say the pledge. So ever since then I've completely ignored the national anthem whenever its played. When I played football I got really daring. I'd untie and tie my shoe during the anthem, sit down, look the other way etc. I don't see the point. When I die nobody is going to care what country I came from, its pointless.
Lise wrote:
Wow. Detention and suspension? I guess you guys do take your patriotic oath very seriously.[/DIV]
No Doubt? I guess it starts at a young age?
I always wonder when I meet (some) Americans, where is the GPS and/or Bar Code implanted??
Here in the states we have a tradition of placing symbols before substance.
The folks that are the most adamant about protecting the flag are also the ones who often see no problem with attacking the principles the flag supposedly represents (freedom, Democracy, the constitution, checks and balances in our government etc.)
American-style patriotism is faith-based secular religion and like other religions it tends not to tolerate open debate. As Cobert might say, it favors "truthiness" over facts.
EDIT: SD, you go girl.
[h2]Tuesday, June 21, 2005[/h2] [span class="rss:item"] [a name="020444"] [/a][h3][a name="020444"]Star Trek pledge of allegiance gets kid suspended[/a][/h3] [a name="020444"]
A young Star Trek fan was suspended from school for reciting his own version of the Pledge of Allegiance, in which he pledged to the United Federation of Planets. His mom has posted the hilarious story: [/a][blockquote] [a name="020444"]"So, anyway. What did he do?" I picked at the hem of my sweatshirt, looked just to the right of her face. I couldn't meet her eyes. I felt nervous. I felt underdressed. I wondered where 8 was. [/a] [a name="020444"]So she told me what he did. And as she told me, I started to laugh. I didn't laugh a little, either, but I belly-laughed and grabbed my stomach. My son stood with his class this morning, put small right hand over heart, faced the American flag, and recited his own personal pledge of allegiance: [/a][/p] [a name="020444"]I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United Federation of Planets, and to the galaxy for which it stands, one universe, under everybody, with liberty and justice for all species. [/a][/p] [a name="020444"]"Mrs. Jaworski. This isn't humorous. The Pledge is an extremely important and patriotic moment each morning in the classroom. I am ashamed of your son's behavior, and I hope you are, too."
[/a][/p][a name="020444"]
[/a][/p][/blockquote][/span]
There's a ST allegiance? Hell, the kid should show more respect to the Klingons, damnit!!! *swearing Klingon words complete with spit and glaring eyes*
[font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="3"][font color="#660000" face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" size="4"]School suspends teen for refusing to recite Pledge of Allegiance
[/font][/font]WILKES-BARRE, Pa. — A high school student has been suspended for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegiance with the rest of his class.[/p] Craig Paternoster, 16, a sophomore at Meyers High School, was suspended on Sept. 30 after having refused to stand for the pledge for the last three weeks.[/p] "It's not that I don't respect America. I think this is the greatest country," Paternoster said. "I just don't believe in the flag, and I have a right to my silence."[/p] Principal Michael Gorham told Paternoster to write a 1,000-word essay on why he would not say the pledge. After that, the sophomore will be allowed to return to school, Gorham says.[/p] "He's been refusing to stand for the pledge for about three weeks now and without a reason. At this point, I felt I had to do something," Gorham said. "All I want is an explanation."[/p] Paternoster said he had refused to say the pledge for the last three years and none of his previous teachers had a problem with it. But this year, Paternoster's homeroom teacher, Andrew Kuhl, would not accept it.[/p] Kuhl, a civics teacher, said he knew about the 1943 Supreme Court ruling, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, that says public school students do not have to salute the American flag or pledge allegiance to it.[/p] But he said other court decisions had allowed schools to require an explanation from students who refuse to participate.[/p] "This could lead to students refusing to do anything for no reason," he said. "You lose a little of the Bill of Rights when you walk into a school, and for good reason."[/p] American Civil Liberties Union spokesman Roger Bearden called the student's suspension illegal and unconstitutional.[/p] "Not only should he be able to refrain from the pledge, the school shouldn't even be questioning the validity of his reasons," Bearden said.[/p]
Is there any other country which practices this stupidity?
Bah!
When will these people learn that whether it's patriotism or other religions, if it's forced on you then it has no meaning! If you force a child to recite the pledge on pain of detention do you really think that will inspire love of country??
Of course not. It inspires obedience, which is of course the true purpose of public school.
Obedience corrupts ingenuity, initiative and self-expression.
It's yet another case of the symbol being invested with a greater power than the object it represents.
Oh gosh it the rah rah american crap went up 1 billion percent after 9/11. If you made any sort of statement in class that was against what the administration was for you yelled at for being an idiot. 9/11 turned a bunch of people my age into neo cons on 9/12 and they haven't come back to reality yet. Its disgusting the things I've heard. I got yelled at for an entire class period (1hr and 30 minutes block schedule) for apparently being an idiot because I was against the Iraq War. I said "you'll get to Baghdad but you'll never leave, I brought up the sunni's and the shia and the kurds" and the teacher and the students told me to go to hell. I left that school after that school year. Couldn't take the abuse.
SD, seriously dude come to the left coast and things will be different.
Not better necessarily, but different.
Over here it's the reactionaries who get dirty looks.
Give them some from me.
Its funny how different my views are from the general census around here. Funny thing about political views especially for me is that I can look back and tell when my views started to change. For the past 8 or so years anything I've ever written has been political. When I'm bored sometimes or looking for inspiration I look through all the old documents and essays I've written over the years and have seen how I've evolved. I always had this view I had of the world in me but I always kept it under wraps scared of what it could do because I wasn't in the greatest environments to bring it out.
When I look back I laugh because wow I was a rebel rouser. I spared nothing and no one. I think that what got me into trouble. You know there's so much a religious school can take when you are writing 5 page essays in religion class about how corrupt, wrong and evil that certain religious group is. When I got those papers back that said 'we need to talk' I knew I did something bad. lol
Treated High School too much like college then realized I'm in a dictatorship.
You are the real deal, SD.
So many folks pick up all their political/religious beliefs from their family. It's like they inherit their beliefs rather than actually bothering to think about them.
Thats what I'm afraid of. I know for a fact that my grandparents from Hungary were socialists. Its too obvious. They're giant labor people, huge labor people. My grandpa grew up on a dirt floor and hatched roof for crying out loud. lol Then my dad would be a 'soft left' person. (social democrat). Then my other side of the family is neo-conservative who won't hear any other view except their own. Its a tug of war battle. Then anger gets into it and I really get messed up. I feel like I was pushed/force/thrown in this political direction like I had no choice.
I guess that is the difference between the USA and Canada.
In Canada, you can take a dump on the picture of the Prime Minister and still be considered patriotic.
lol thats awesome. Then again you've got a bunch of traitors in the Federal Parliament. That wouldn't happen here, there would have already have been a civil war if that was the case.
What I mean is, you could do what I mentioned to any political party, whoever is in and it wouldn't matter.
I can be a proud Canadian without ramming a Maple Leaf flag in my spine and crawl around on all fours so people can see my flag waving ever so bright.
rofl rofl
How can you say we are obsesed with our flag when the Canadians put a maple leef on everything, They have a maple leef on there mcdonalds sign!!
Maple leef? I always thought the Golden Arch had a beaver on it. Goes to show how much I really pay attention to McDisaster.
(http://i9.tinypic.com/2nk5b9l.jpg)
Grouptopic.com wrote:
How can you say we are obsesed with our flag when the Canadians put a maple leef on everything, They have a maple leef on there mcdonalds sign!!
There is a big difference. You should be allowed to love your flag. And yes, the Maple Leaf is well represented, and people are proud to wave it. But obsessed?
When you see a flag on a McDonalds and other corporations, it resembles the fact that those corporations, although American based, have their own Canadian headquarters.
I don't think that falls into the same catergory as driving down "Anytown, USA", and if you don't have an American Flag in front of your house, you are a backstabbing commie that deserves to be shipped to Cuba and lit on fire!
The post 9/11 reasons for all the flag waving..or should I say worshipping, are scary.
PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THIS! *grabs crotch*
I've always had some kind of admiration of the Americans and their patriotism. Be it misguided or not.
I've heard the statement that in the U.S. almost every house has a flag on it.
Depends entirely on where one lives.
Here in California, although just after 9/11 there was a bit of flag-mania, it's not all that common to see flags waving. You canucks sometimes forget that the cultural difference between California and Idaho is about as great as the culture gap between B.C. and Quebec. Let's keep it classy.
(http://i19.tinypic.com/2eewl07.gif)
HAH!!! Take that, aliens!!!
Ooooh, nice flag!
I can see my house from here!!!! :O
Every year around Canada Day I get the urge to fly the red maple leaf in front of my house. oh yeah I'd be in trouble trouble if I did that. My house is on a cliff overlooking a busy highway. 10's of thousands of cars would see it. ha ha ha ha
tenkani makes a good point. I think there must be a cultural difference between Seattle and...well, the rest of Washington State too.
Portland and the Oregon Inland, etc.
Okay if you really want to know who flies the flag like its a hat and does the quintuple (bumper sticker, flag stand on the driver side, bush sticker, flag tshirts, flags on the house)
Missouri, Kansas, Illinois (southern), arkansas, louisiana, mississippi, alabama, georgia, florida (central and northern), south carolina, north carolina, virginia (minus northern virginia near D.C), west virginia (minus the morgantown and charleston), southern Ohio, northern wisconsin, Iowa, Colorado (outside of denver and Summit County), Nevada (outside of Vegas), Arizona, New Mexico, Texas (everything but Austin yes there is a liberal town in Texas), rural kentucky (that means not louisville), South Dakota, eastern washington state (spokane), idaho, wyoming, rural montana (outside of Helena), western Pennsylvannia (east of phili), oklahoma
There thats about where you would see the quintuple more then any other place. lol I just named all the republican strong holds. damn I'm good.
But really go anywhere around here and this is ground zero for brainwashery.
People shouldn't feel like they should be ashamed to fly the flag either. Just do it for your own reason. Pride, or whatever, but do it for your own reason.
It is the "We gotta Bomb Them Back to the Stone Age" attitude since 9/11 that brought on the reason for the major influx of multiple flags.
and by "Them", they mean "they don't know who them is".
the average american thinks Barack Obama is a terrorist.
You really need to move, bro.
I know the west is calling.
Anyways, I have mixed feelings about Obama.
He's certainly not a real progressive, but maybe he's as close as we're going to get.
After all, he's handsome, articulate and "clean".
f*ck's sake, Mr. Biden, what were you thinking????
well Bush said the same thing about Obama on the same day nobody is calling for his head.
Anyway Obama is pretty far left then most people think. Just look at his record in the Illinois Senate.
the average american thinks Barack Obama is a terrorist.
That sounds like the average American doesn't have a television......or maybe even electricity. Where are these 'average Americans' hiding?
On CNN they interviewed a bunch of people on the street and the Moose lady (thats her name) said something like Barack Hussein Obama a threat to the nation? And most of the people said most difinately.
Believe it or not he's not that widely well known outside of the midwest. More people vote for American Idol remember then the president.
I just got back from the annual meeting of my employer and to pump us up (and remind us how important our work is) they played a couple of country music videos. One of them was this, thought you might like it...
[br style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"]Angry American (Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue)![/span]
[span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]American Girls and American Guys[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]We'll always stand up and salute[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]We'll always recognize[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]When we see Ole Glory Flying[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]There's a lot of men dead[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]So we can sleep in peace at night[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]When we lay down our head[/span]
[span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"]My daddy served in the army[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"]Where he lost his right eye[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"]But he flew a flag out in our yard[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"]Till the day that he died[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"]He wanted my mother, my brother, my sister and me[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"]To grow up and live happy[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"]In the land of the free.[/span]
[br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]Now this nation that I love[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]Has fallen under attack[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]A mighty sucker punch came flying in[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]From somewhere in the back[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]Soon as we could see clearly[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]Through our big black eye[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]Man, we lit up your world[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]Like the 4th of July[/span]
[span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"]Hey Uncle Sam[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"]Put your name at the top of his list[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"]And the Statue of Liberty[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"]Started shaking her fist[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"]And the eagle will fly[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"]And there's gonna be hell[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"]When you hear Mother Freedom[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"]Start ringing her bell[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"]And itll feel like the whole wide world is raining down on you[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"]Ahhh Brought to you Courtesy of the Red White and Blue[/span]
[span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]Ohhh Justice will be served[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]And the battle will rage[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]This big dog will fight[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]When you rattle his cage[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]And you'll be sorry that you messed with[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]The U.S. of A.[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]'Cause we'll put a boot in your ass[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]It's the American way[/span]
[span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"]Hey Uncle Sam[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"]Put your name at the top of his list[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"]And the Statue of Liberty[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"]Started shaking her fist[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"]And the eagle will fly[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"]And there's gonna be hell[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"]When you hear Mother Freedom[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"]Start ringing her bell[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"]And itll feel like the whole wide world is raining down on you[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"]Brought to you Courtesy of the Red White and Blue[/span]
[br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]Uhhh Ohhh[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]Of the Red, White and Blue[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]Ohhh Ohh Oh[/span][br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"][span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"]Of My Red, White and Blue![/span]
thanks tenkani, now i don't need lunch..i lost my appetite!
lol!
ugh could country music get anymore dumber.
does your 'boss boss' give you letters tenk? lol you know like those letters that say keep up the brain washing type stuff?
You might be doing a dis-service to the 'average American' by comparing them to the Moose lady. [img style="CURSOR: pointer" onclick=url(this.src); src="http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/more/bigs/c008.gif" border=0]
anyone ever watch "Talking to Americans"?
[A href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_To_Americans"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_To_Americans[/A]
It is so funny. I know they pick the duds out of the bunch, humans are not all that dumb, whether they are American or not!
I seen one episode where a professor at an Ivy League school never agreed with "Prime Minister Tim Horton" on several key issues..
I work with an American that was pretty offended by this show. But she has nice legs so she can get away with a lot!
They mostly leave me alone, which is how I've managed to maintain my sanity.
But today was a very bad situation, I bloodied my lip trying not to bust out laughing (or crying?) while that bullshit was playing. Then my friend sitting next to me said it sounded just like a Team America song and I just about shit a purple twinkie.
Thing is, I work for a corp that operates nationwide and they obviously didn't tailor their presentation to California. On the other hand, when I was dying I managed to look around the room and no one else seemed to be disturbed. I did notice my boss giving me an odd look though. Woops.
Haha found her
Jeanne Moos
(http://www.cnn.com/CNN/anchors_reporters/images/moos.jeanne.jpg)
lol my parents have threatened to ship me off to the Navy before (because its the 'safest' armed forces) and I just laugh. I go I highly doubt the sailors are going to understand why their cadet has a BC and Canadian Flag in his quarters with pictures of Trudeau and Tommy Douglas. lol
Oh THAT Moos lady. I was picturing someone with a plaid hunting jacket and a lump of chewing tobbaco in her cheek.
I like Jeanne Moos.
yeah she does the crazy stories
My American co-worker is getting frusterated because I told her if George Bush Jr. gets shot and killed, I will throw one of the biggest part-tays in N. America! It is not a slap towards to USA to me though, it is a slap towards Bush. I love a lot of Americans.
You reading this BIG BROTHER?
james h. wrote:
My American co-worker is getting frusterated because I told her if George Bush Jr. gets shot and killed, I will throw one of the biggest part-tays in N. America! It is not a slap towards to USA to me though, it is a slap towards Bush. I love a lot of Americans.
You reading this BIG BROTHER? [/DIV]
she frustrated because than Cheney will be in charge!
[font style="font-family: Arial Black; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" size="7"]49er!!![/font]
wh00t!
[FONT size=7]EH![/FONT]
the neo conservative night mare, bush dies/resigns, cheney would go as well making the president........
(http://www.cindysheehanwatch.com/images/pelosi.jpg)
How's life in sunny California??? ;)
P.S. how many flags do you own?
I've got two, canada and a BC one
Not you!!!
(Now we're even.)
hmm???
lol I just thought of something else Robert Byrd would be the Vice President LOL!!!
tenkani wrote:
How's life in sunny California??? ;)
P.S. how many flags do you own?
life is wet in sunny California
just one flag and its on the flagpole at the fire house down the street
fire house?
fire station
Yup. Wet and overcast down here as well.
No palm trees either WTF???
We got robbed :(
you work at a fire station?
Sportsdude wrote:
you work at a fire station?
nope
I always wanted to slide down a pole.
I'm not a fan of poles.
I have a Cuban Flag. I traded it with a Canadian on with an amigo I met there.
It doesn't mean much to me, but hanging it from my antenna and trying to drive into Washington State sure gets people excited?!!