Love That Christian Tolerance

[Gopher]

tenkani wrote:
  Ah, so Satan (the Demiurge) IS god.

Is that what Satanists believe?

And according to Satanists, what should guide our lives?

Whim?[/DIV][/DIV]
 Nihilism?

[tenkani]

Why would a nihilist worship an invisible man in the sky (or under the earth)?

It's sort of a contradiction.

Nihilism is depressing as hell, but it's probably as close to the ultimate truth as we're likely to get    

[TehBorken]

 Legion wrote:
I prefer to call Satan the [a  href="vny!://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demiurge"]Demiurge[/a].

Yah, I have dem urges all de time.
 

[Legion]

 Sorry, I don't know much about satanists.

Consider me to be a neo-nihilist. I don't believe in anything that 99.999999% of people believe. I am fashioning my own philosophy which has everything to do with living and knowing myself. I guess you could call me an existentalist. I live my philosophy and I'm not afraid to try out new ones.

Like the Gnostics and Kabbalists I believe that God cannot truly be known, at least from where I'm sitting. So I can only decipher my little divine spark within so that's all I'm gonna do. Abstract thinking is herd thinking.
   

[tenkani]

I think a lot of people join a religion (assuming they weren't part of it from childhood) for the community. If you don't need to find that in your religion you're a lot more free to choose the philosophy that best suits your outlook, rather than having the philosophy choose you.

  Legion, I respect the thought you've put into your perspective and yeah, it's hard work, especially when you can't turn to a single book for the answers to every question    

[soapbox]

actually jesus says nothing about homosexuality.

  it is the sometimes rabid and fanatical paul.  

[tenkani]

I don't think I mentioned Jesus. In fact I said it was from the Old Testament.

Nontheless, it was a commandment to execute homosexuals.

If the good book is devinely-inspired, isn't it reasonable to assume that a command so extreme would not be included in the bible unless god approved of it?

[P.C.]

I think a lot of people join a religion (assuming they weren't part of it from childhood) for the community.

  This is my perspective also.  At the risk of being cheeky, not unlike AA.  People of like minds find comfort in numbers.  And you know what ?....I don't have a problem with that.  If it were merely a place of comfort for people to find avenues for dealing with life, I can't imagine anything better.  But it's not.  It almost feels like a 'misery loves company' senario, and everyone who has misery, can only find answers if you join this group. And if you don't...........you're surely going to hell.  

[soapbox]

there is no 11th commandment to kill homosexuals.

  what you have done tenkani,is shown your subtle hostility to a text or book that i suspect you have not read your way through.

  god inspired?

  yes,there are many stories throughtout the jewish old testament and the christian new testament that speak of gods involvement in the human race.there are direct stories relating to some central figures in judeo-christian culture and there are reflections about god written by various authors.there is also,of course,the gospels.

  it is as course a collection of texts that have been edited over time,some portions ommitted and some elaborated to suit their own means or ends.there are no christians or jews who believe the bible the way it is assembled now is somehow the eternal text and thoughts of god???

  i suggest you read psalms,very enlightening.a very touching relflection on god.    

[Sportsdude]

Secular

 [OL] [LI]Worldly rather than spiritual. ( There are the people that pray and the people that do)[/LI][/OL]

[tenkani]

Soapbox, thanks for the thoughtful and measured reply, although a flame would have been perfectly acceptable too IMO.

  I was taking a slightly extreme position in order to hopefully stimulate some debate on an important topic. Thor knows we could use it here in the crypt. Whether this is trolling, I'll let you be the judge.

  "there are no christians or jews who believe the bible the way it is assembled now is somehow the eternal text and thoughts of god???"



If you meant this as a statement rather than a question then I have to disagree. I have met several Christians (and heard/read many others) who claim that the King James version of the bible is LITERALLY true and is 100% god-inspired.



The fact that don't hold this position says a lot about your intelligence (in a good way).

  Am I hostile towards the bible? Well, I'm hostile towards the portions where the Christian god orders the execution of entire communties of non-believers, man, woman and child. I'm hostile towards the sections that advocate the forceable capture and impregnation of the women of conquered enemies. I'm hostile towards a book that advocates stoning disobedient children to death.

  But mostly, I'm hostile towards the fundamentalists, who believe all of these commandments and events are literally true and still find it in their hearts to follow a diety who would perpetrate/advocate them.

  To those Christians who see the bible as a flawed and sometimes improperly translated collection of geneology, metaphor and history, I'm not particularly hostile, although I can't wrap my head around doubting the accuracy of the bible yet still having faith in the existence of an invisible man.

[kitten]

I read somewhere that man created god in his own image, which explains why there are so many differences between gods.  There couldn't be a totally flawless deity, because mankind would have no way to relate to such a being.  Having said that, I still don't see any reason to believe in something there is no proof of, and is flawed at that.  How could a god be a "Supreme Being" and still have all the pettinesses that humans posess?  Doesn't make sense.

[soapbox]

the bible was not written by god,it was written by the followers of god,inspried by god and some of it recordings of god and gods' relationship with humans.

  well,we certainly were not created in a garden in the likeness of god,we are part of the larger creative process of the cosmos,we are not separate and distinct somehow having a special place in the universe,alone with our creator.what i mean by that is we are bound by the laws of nature and science as we understand them and those laws are a result of living within this universe,the universe i am inclined to think was intiated by the big guy.

  what is important is that there are certain messengers along the way who point to a larger reality we are not always aware of.i say always aware of because i am certain you have experienced epiphanies in your life.syncronicities and situations revealed to you in your life that indicate this.these people don't always have it down right as we are just a species who is learning about ourselves and our universe around us,but the message in essence is the same.

  we exist in that wierd space between emerging from the ocean and understanding our role in the universe(think in terms of a really long time frame which a "wink" in gods time) sound like a cheesy star trek episode? not really.

  we can peer into the universe and reflect on ourselves and creation yet we still "club" each other over the head when we have conflict withinour own species or with our habitat/natural enviroment...i'd say we have a long way to go.

  god and jesus. kitten mentioned it is hard to relate to god.well,think about jesus for a moment and his message.he is a metaphor for us as a species and god. jesus tells us that there is faith and love,there is a father (ie) god, tells us that we can experience this creator or the creators love through him.almost like saying...worship me but worship me for the right reasons because i am god manifest in human form. kinda makes it easier to relate to the big guy(big thing,big it,big girl,big guy). know that god loves you and this is bond that can never be broken. god made it easier to love him or for practicality,know him,by bringing forth jesus. "know me and you know the father".

  okay,you say...god loves us...why do shitty things happen and good people die?  i would say that gods role is not to babysit us as a species but to periodically show up in our lives personally or through history to remind us there is a god.

if god held our hands so to speak through our evolution as a species how could we ever grow without struggle? learn and develop? if we could ask god for food like ordering it through a computer on red dwarf what is the point?(think from the big guys perspective).

  children of creation,children of god,children of the cosmos.

  now remember: APE SHALL NOT KILL APE.

[tenkani]

LOL. Well said    

[Legion]

Didn't you kill my brother?

The gnostics were on their way to a mass peace movement and the so-called Christians massacred us.

No worries. What does not kill us makes us stronger.