Prayer won't heal ya

Started by TehBorken, Mar 30 06 02:40

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TehBorken

 [h3]Prayer won't heal ya         [/h3] A new scientific study shows that prayer didn't seem to help patients who underwent bypass surgery. In fact, some of the people who were prayed for did worse. The results of the study of more than 1,800 patients were published in the American Heart Journal. From Reuters: [blockquote]The patients in the study at six U.S. hospitals included 604 who were actually prayed for after being told they might or might not be; another 597 patients who were not prayed for after being told they might or might not be; and a group of 601 who were prayed for and told they would be the subject of such prayer.

The praying was done by members of three Christian groups in monasteries and elsewhere -- two Catholic and one Protestant -- who were given written prayers and the first name and initial of the last name of the prayer subjects. The prayers started on the eve of or day of surgery and lasted for two weeks.

Among the first group -- who were prayed for but only told they might be -- 52 percent had post-surgical complications compared to 51 percent in the second group, the ones who were not prayed for though told they might be. In the third group, who knew they were being prayed for, 59 percent had complications.

After 30 days, however, the death rates and incidence of major complications was about the same across all three groups, said the study...[/blockquote] [a href="vny!://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyid=2006-03-30T204217Z_01_N30395850_RTRUKOC_0_US-PRAYER.xml&rpc=22"]Link[/a] to Reuters article, [a href="vny!://www.ahjonline.com/article/PIIS0002870305006484/fulltext?browse_volume=151&issue_key=TOC%40%40JOURNALSNOSUPP%40YMHJ%400151%400004&issue_preview=no&select1=no&select1=no&vol="]Link[/a] to the paper in the American Heart Journal  
The real trouble with reality is that there's no background music.

tenkani

Thanks!!

  Sounds like a great study. It completely removes the placebo effect from the equation. People like to repeat stories about how someone in their Church was prayed for and was healed. Once the person is aware that divine intervention has been requested, the example is inherently flawed.

  Sugar pills actually can "cure" depression, insomnia, chronic pain and a host of other ills when presented as real medicine. That doesn't make them magic sugar pills.
For thou art with me; thy cream and thy sugar they comfort me
Thou preparest a carafe before me in the presence of Juan Valdez
Thou anointest my day with pep; my mug runneth over
Surely richness and taste shall follow me all the days of my life
And I will dwell in the house of coffee forever.

P.C.

A true separation of science and religion.  I pray to win the lottery ALL the time....it NEVER works for me.
Sir Isaac Newton invented the swinging door....for the convenience of his cat.

Sportsdude(logged out)

Its all in the head. Religion has in away left me accept I only seek messages from music for some reason. It goes back a year and a half ago when my pastor who was married started having an affair with the secretary who was also head of the youth bible class.  Since then I've only gone up to church 3 times, have come to hate the evangelical movement by saying they are wrong farsided and only want your money, haven't we learned anything from the tele-anglests from the 80's. In my opinion you aren't practicing christianity if the pastor isn't called a pastor and is not in theologian clothes.

Just thought of another essay topic.  

tenkani

Yup. There's nothing wrong with spirituality, but when religion comes into the picture shit always starts to go wrong. Spirituality doesn't generally divide humann beings from their brothers; dogma and power do. When you begin putting aside your capacity to reason in favor of "wisdom" from an ancient text or the commandments of your religious leaders (who are fallible human beings) you pervert spirituality into a dangerous tool for manipulative individuals imo.  
For thou art with me; thy cream and thy sugar they comfort me
Thou preparest a carafe before me in the presence of Juan Valdez
Thou anointest my day with pep; my mug runneth over
Surely richness and taste shall follow me all the days of my life
And I will dwell in the house of coffee forever.

CK

You bet ten! Can I get an Amen?!!!

  I see these fancy churches with the stage show, lights, plasma tv's, everyone is dressed like its prom night. Why? I am not sure what God they are praying to?

Trollio

 Very tempting thread.
 
 There are studies that go both ways. The important concern for me is what is actually going on in the human mind/soul with the placebo effect. What transcendent power do we have and where does it come from?
 
 Sportsdude: never allow the actions of other humans to define your spirituality for you. They will always disappoint, and they are certainly not the faith. What you've said about your experience with your church is correct in my experience as well (and I'm not a Christian).
   
one must be intelligent to get intelligent answers.
— bebu

TehBorken

If prayer worked, the U.S. Army would be using it.

I find that to be a pretty good "litmus test" for whether or not something is "real" or "works". The Army doesn't give a damn what it is, if it works, they'll use it.
The real trouble with reality is that there's no background music.

Trollio

The U.S. Army uses $1800 toilet seats.  
one must be intelligent to get intelligent answers.
— bebu

kitten

Trollio wrote:
The U.S. Army uses $1800 toilet seats.  
   Yeah, but they work, don't they?  Then again, maybe not.
Thousands of years ago cats were worshipped.  They have not forgotten.

kitten

Come to think of it, prayer sometimes cures poverty.  Look what it has done for all the televangelists!
Thousands of years ago cats were worshipped.  They have not forgotten.

tenkani

ROFL @ kitten    
For thou art with me; thy cream and thy sugar they comfort me
Thou preparest a carafe before me in the presence of Juan Valdez
Thou anointest my day with pep; my mug runneth over
Surely richness and taste shall follow me all the days of my life
And I will dwell in the house of coffee forever.