The beginning of the movement back to singer/songwriters - bye-bye Yank Idol !!!

stretchedout · Jun 16 07 08:36

Remember when, before MTV destroyed the music industry, you actually didn't care what the singer/songwriters' who you heard on the radio looked like? With the fall of the first American Idol hopefully the US public is waking up and ready for the next Christopher Cross because it doesn't or shouldn't matter about image, but quality music recorded by the artist who wrote it! Bye, bye, bye, phonies! Kelly Clarkson SUCKS ASS:

[A href="http://news.google.ca/nwshp?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&tab=wn&q=kelly%20clarkson"]http://news.google.ca/nwshp?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&tab=wn&q=kelly%20clarkson[/A]

P.C. · Jun 16 07 08:50

Oh....you mean back when they 'made it' on hard work and perseverance.....longevity, recognition of their talent and craft through the test of time.....sprinkled with a few flops and then rallying with a bigger and better effort? You mean THAT quality music?

It's become just like everything else......just add water.

Same goes for actors and actresses. I think it was Laren Bacall who got dubbed as a snob because she said Nicole Kidman wasn't a legend, because she was too young to be a legend. I thought she was 100% bang on. These starlets who come out of nowhere and are lucky enough to score a part in a movie that is PRODUCED or directed by a legend.....somehow get dibs on somebody elses hard work.

stretchedout · Jun 16 07 08:58

The problem with American culture is that it is hip to be an overnight sensation based on some talent and a lot of luck, rather than to become successful after years in the trenches. The greatest pop group ever, The Beatles as a group became huge after 8 years of performing experience for each of the members including four years as a group, granted Ringo didn't join until mid-1962. You had better believe they earned it playing hours per night in seedy rooms in Hamburg for instance. Never mind that by the time they made it most of them had been playing their instruments for 15 years at least!

P.C. · Jun 16 07 09:07

It's also notable, that the Beatles were actually NOT great musicians. They improved in time, but their earlier songs barely contained more than a few chords. But that to me makes them doubly talented in that they found their way around that by writing great lyrics with great tunes.

Also, not everybody who makes it as a singer is a great singer. Dylan, Guthrie, Van Morrison don't have 'traditional' good singing voices but found their way to greatness with real talent. I bet that if any one of those greats showed up on AI, they wouldn't make the first cut......what does that tell you.[/DIV]

stretchedout · Jun 16 07 09:14

I disagree. Those you listed are great singers because they truly have a unique sound; not because of their use of traditional technique. American Idol has an obvious goal while any particular season is on TV. The traditional way to success has meant that the consumer never knows what they are going to get. Did anyone predict the success of hair bands followed by their destruction with the emergence of the 4 kings of grunge who then all became successful? With American Idol we know what mediocre, already done a million times before, type of product we are going to get - it is so boring from a musicians perspective, but the show can be fun to watch.

P.C. · Jun 16 07 09:31

Actually, I think we are in fact agreeing. Those I listed are great singers because they truly have a unique sound....not because they have a 'traditional 'good singing voice'. That's my point.

The singers on AI are a dime a dozen IMO.....if you've heard one you've heard them all.....all of them taking their voices on the same trip up and down the scales. This 'technique' has even mangled the National Anthems. [/DIV]

Schadenfreude · Jun 16 07 10:13

P.C. wrote:
It's also notable, that the Beatles were actually NOT great musicians. They improved in time, but their earlier songs barely contained more than a few chords. But that to me makes them doubly talented in that they found their way around that by writing great lyrics with great tunes.

Also, not everybody who makes it as a singer is a great singer. [FONT color=#c00000] Dylan, Guthrie, Van Morrison[/FONT] don't have 'traditional' good singing voices but found their way to greatness with real talent. I bet that if any one of those greats showed up on AI, they wouldn't make the first cut......what does that tell you.[/DIV][/DIV]
Those three guys as well as Neil Young, are known firstly as song writers. They have a unique sound but would never have made it performing other's songs.

Robert Zimmerman was so into poetry that he changed his name to refect that.

P.C. · Jun 16 07 10:32

Those three guys as well as Neil Young, are known firstly as song writers. They have a unique sound but would never have made it performing other's songs.

Robert Zimmerman was so into poetry that he changed his name to refect that.

That's true Schad.....but it wouldn't have mattered how great their writing was if it didn't get OUT there......and it got 'out there' and stayed out there, with their own voices. In their beginnings, you had to 'get passed' their unique voices to hear their stories.....actually enjoying their sound came as part of the package that inspired us to want to hear more. I think being able to do that is talent at it's best.

*I can't put Neil Young into that group (for me). With him?....I can't get past that voice....like fingernails on a blackboard. That doesn't mean I don't recognize that he too has a great following for the same reasons I put the others on that list.[/DIV]

stretchedout · Jun 16 07 11:00

What about John Fogerty?

P.C. · Jun 16 07 11:30

I like him.....and he too has appealed to more than one generation. (my definition of a legend)

Sportsdude · Jun 17 07 07:42

I listen to Gordon Lightfoot.

The Beatles are really funny. I never cared much for McCartney he's never evolved out of being 'poppish'. His songs are quite little songs that don't really mean anything. Lennon on the other hand he was the song writer and evolved out of that 'boy band' mentality.

Today everything is written by a few people and not the artists. Much like politics today its more about image then substance.
Country music was the first to be ruined. The folk genre singers song writers were kicked out of the 'nashville' scene in the 60's. Now all of that 'nashville sound' is created by a handful of song writers who write the same songs for everyone.
Dillution.
Nowadays if you tell someone who is a country 'fan' that John Denver, Fogarty, Dylan, Chaplin and so on are 'country' singers. They'll go biserk.

Then for rock music Nirvana pretty much killed the 'pop scene' which was hair metal. If Nirvana hadn't happened at the same time of Biggie and Tupac getting killed. Rap wouldn't have gone the 'hair metal' route and start talking about girls.
Plus Nirvana and grunge in general was depressing. Bubble Gum pop was meant to be happy. Happy sells. So Spice Girls were created and filled that whole too. Then came the boy bands and britney.

(did a project on the popular music and the decline of rock music back in high school)

P.C. · Jun 17 07 07:47

Nowadays if you tell someone who is a country 'fan' that John Denver, Fogarty, Dylan, Chaplin and so on are 'country' singers. They'll go biserk.

Nowadays if someone tells me that John Denver, Fogary, Dylan, Chaplin (?)...Chapin? and so on are 'country' singers, I just think the 'someone' is misguided.

Sportsdude · Jun 17 07 07:51

well folk fits in the broad sense of country music and the fact that Gordon Lighfoot annd Dylan routinely wrote and played with people like Cash proves it. Hank Williams who is considered the 'father' of country music was a folk singer. Country music was born out of folk.

P.C. · Jun 17 07 09:14

Country music was born out of folk.

Perhaps so.....but folk remained folk.....and those that 'branched off' attracted a different audience. Folk is still folk and country is still country. Then of course there are the 'hybrids' that confuse the heck out of everybody and these artists aren't committed to one or the other......kind of a blending, homogenized version of neither......lol

Johnny Cash is one country artist that has been able to blend successfully IMO. I'm no country fan, but I do love his story's and his style for some reason. (I think the reason being that he didn't 'blend' to conform.....his style just happened to cross the genres)

Sportsdude · Jun 17 07 09:19

I'm of the opinion that country music today isn't country but easy listening pop music with accents. So when someone bases country and folk off todays 'country' music. Of course they'll say it was different. To me country died when it went poppish back in the early 80's or aka that 'nashville' sound. Before that folk and country were intertwined.