It's time to stop the agressor!

[fromanotherforum]

 [P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"]It's time to occupy [?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /][st1:country-region w:st="on"][st1:place w:st="on"]USA[/st1:place][/st1:country-region] by UN forces and stop the most aggressive country.

   

[hellno]

go back to russia!  

[Dick Yamada]

As long as it keeps spending money and lives and fuel and credibility, it won't be long before it's just a shell of its former self anyway. It won't be necessary to invade it.

More likely it'll be necessary to defend it, this "house divded against itself".

[fromanotherforum]

That was a joke :-)

hellno, go back to USA ;-)  

[49er]

[FONT size=5][/FONT] [DIV class=MsoPlainText][FONT face=Arial size=3][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]Interesting Statistic[/SPAN][/FONT]

[DIV class=MsoPlainText][FONT face=Arial][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"][/SPAN][/FONT]

[DIV class=MsoPlainText][FONT face=Arial size=3][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]Regardless of where you stand on the issue of the U. S. involvement in Iraq, here's a sobering statistic.[/SPAN][/FONT]

[DIV class=MsoPlainText][FONT face=Arial][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"][FONT size=3][SPAN id=lw_1172624875_0 style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed"][SPAN id=lw_1172626121_0 style="BACKGROUND: none transparent scroll repeat 0% 0%; BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed"][/SPAN][/SPAN][/FONT][/SPAN][/FONT]

[DIV class=MsoPlainText][FONT face=Arial size=3][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]  [/SPAN][/FONT]

[DIV class=MsoPlainText][FONT size=3][FONT face=Arial][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]There has been a monthly average of 160,000 troops in the [SPAN id=lw_1172624875_1 style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed"][SPAN id=lw_1172626121_1 style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed"]Iraq[/SPAN][/SPAN] theatre of [/SPAN][/FONT][FONT face=Arial][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]operations during the last 22 months, and a total of 2,112 deaths. That[/SPAN][/FONT][/FONT]

[DIV class=MsoPlainText][FONT face=Arial size=3][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]gives a firearm death rate of 60 per 100,000 soldiers.[/SPAN][/FONT]

[DIV class=MsoPlainText][FONT face=Arial size=3][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]  [/SPAN][/FONT]

[DIV class=MsoPlainText][FONT size=3][FONT face=Arial][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]The firearm death rate in [SPAN id=lw_1172624875_2 style="BACKGROUND: none transparent scroll repeat 0% 0%; BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed"][SPAN id=lw_1172626121_2 style="BACKGROUND: none transparent scroll repeat 0% 0%; BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed"]Washington , DC[/SPAN][/SPAN] is 80.6 per 100,000 persons for [/SPAN][/FONT][FONT face=Arial][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]the same period. That means that you are about 25% more likely to be shot and [/SPAN][/FONT][FONT face=Arial][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]killed in the U.S. Capital than you are in [SPAN id=lw_1172624875_3 style="BACKGROUND: none transparent scroll repeat 0% 0%; BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed"][SPAN id=lw_1172626121_3 style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed"]Iraq[/SPAN][/SPAN] .[/SPAN][/FONT][/FONT]

[DIV class=MsoPlainText][FONT face=Arial size=3][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]  [/SPAN][/FONT]

[DIV class=MsoPlainText][FONT face=Arial size=3][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]Conclusion: The U. S. should pull out of [SPAN id=lw_1172624875_4 style="BACKGROUND: none transparent scroll repeat 0% 0%; BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed"][SPAN id=lw_1172626121_4 style="BACKGROUND: none transparent scroll repeat 0% 0%; BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed"]Washington[/SPAN][/SPAN] .[/SPAN][/FONT]

[DIV class=MsoPlainText][FONT face="Courier New" size=3][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"]  [/SPAN][/FONT][/DIV]

[tenkani]

There are a few caveats to that.

It only speaks to U.S. "troop" deaths, ignoring all U.S. contractor deaths. There are somewhere in the neighborhood of 100,000 U.S. contractors working in Iraq presently and statistics on their casualty rates are VERY hard to find.

  It also ignores the civilian deaths, which is something Americans are fond of doing. When we lose an American it's tragic. When an Iraqi dies it's just a statistic.

  EDIT: Also, I have yet to hear anyone state that the only reason we should pull out of Iraq is because of U.S. military deaths. I think a much more compelling reason is that according to most anti-terrorism experts I've heard speak on the matter, our presence in Iraq has actually strengthened our enemies. Add to that the fact that the conflict has gradually turned from an insurgency into a civil war (with the Iraqi government directly aiding militant groups who are attempting to ethnically cleanse the Sunnis).

  It is now a doomed effort. Did it ever have a chance of success? Possibly, but I won't run down the long list of errors in planning and execution because at this point they are moot. The situation on the ground in Iraq has shaped itself despite our presence and will continue to shape itself into an increasingly ugly scenario whether we go or stay. We have already lost. The only question now is how much more we're willing to sacrifice (in blood and riches) to a lost cause.

[Dick Yamada]

The US has spilled untold amounts of blood and money in Iraq to accomplish nothing more than to provide a live-fire training ground for its many adversaries. Methinks it would have been cheaper to stay home and genuinely beef up actual homeland security.

[tenkani]

Agreed, Dick.

Or perhaps to maintain pressure in Afghanistan and actually catch Bin Laden as well as keeping enough force present to prevent the return of the Taliban.

  In the coming Spring offensive, you will see the true price in that country of our foreign policy attention deficit disorder.

  If you think of the U.S. intelligence apparatus and military forces as a gun, it is the most technologically advanced and efficient weapon in mankind's arsenal. But a weapon is only as effective as the person who wields it. Give that shiny, high-tech assault rifle to blindfolded mongoloid on PCP in the middle of a crowded shopping mall and the result will be predictable.

  What you see in Iraq is the result of a small group of f*cking nimrods in government running our efficient, highly-trained military through a wood chipper. If someone had set out to intentionally destroy our capacity to wage war and to ruin our reputation abroad they couldn't have done a better job. We are well and truly f*cked, my friend.

[Russ]

I think the US had a too brutal and standoffish approach to civilians in Iraq. Its unfortunate because all its done is to piss off more people and make them join or at least vocally support insurgents, I agree with your firends Tenk.

  I think the idea was right.. but they should have done more to show respect for the Mullah's and other local 'chiefs' or 'dignitaries'. win the civilians over and you have a huge help.

  I know afghanistan isnt the best but its doing okay.. look at the way its being done. British doctrine was accomodating to the local dignitaries and had a question then shoot policy.. CDN forces kept that policy as well.

[tenkani]

[span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"]I know afghanistan isnt the best but its doing okay[/span]

Um, no. The Taliban are reclaiming lands long-held by allied forces, and the Spring offensive hasn't even begun yet.
Upium production last I heard was at an all-time high.
The drug lords operate largely unfettered by our forces and have set up a semi-feudal system run by local liege lords who exercise virtually unlimited power on their subjects.
At the same time, sharia law is making a comeback because when you allow religious fundamentalists to vote democratically they have a tendency to vote for religiously based laws. And in a region like Afghanistan that means repressive and brutal laws that subjugate women and crack down on freedoms across the board.
Afghanistan is definitely NOT doing Ok, and we don't have the reserves anymore to fix what we've allowed it to become with our idiotic Iraq diversion.
It's a tragedy    
 

[Russ]

Really? I guess Im reading the news wrong

  The news here led me to believe different.

[Sportsdude]

 Taliban has 10,000 strong now. Hell they tried to kill the VP today. Kabul used to be immune to the violence but not anymore.  

[tenkani]

Maybe not Russ.
The news you heard may have been comparing Taliban activity now to what they expect will occur when the Spring offensive starts and definitely from that point of view it's not that bad now.
People always say the Afghan national sport is insurgency warfare and it's 100% true.
They have fought technologically superior infidel foes for many generations and are damn good at it.
Each year it follows the same pattern, as the icy winter sets in activity subsibes, and as it warms up there is always a "spring offensive".
This year the signs are very bad. There are far more suicide bombing than there should be at this time of the year and the Taliban (who were allowed to lick their wounds and gather strength in Pakistan) have flooded back across the border with renewed vigor and tactics learned from meetings with insurgents from Iraq.
And yes, their attack on Dick Cheney was a sign of their incredibly massive balls, which they lug around in wheelbarrels     :O