Here's the proof

P.C. · Feb 12 07 08:39

But the big thing that taxpayers and insurance paying people should realize.. is that most of the thefts and crime come from cars, copper and such being done by drug addicts looking for their 10 dollar fixes. Give them the drugs, and they dont steal. Less crime and cars being broken into. Less insurance claims. You also cut out the middlemen, the drug dealers. they have no business if no one buys. Thats another criminal element gone.

As far as Harper saying the program isn't 'worthy'......an effective program is absolutely worthy.......however, I think that the present program has proved to be ineffective.

I hear what you're saying Russ, but the fact is, theft and crime in those areas has NOT decreased.

To suggest that giving a drug addict 'free' drugs as the way to curb drug related crimes is no different than offering a clinic to give thieves free money or alcoholics a bar where they can drink with no cost or pedophiles a 'safe' place to access children. I'm not denying that there needs to be something. I just don't believe that this is the answer.

It feels like it's no different than when you were a child with a scraped knee...... a kiss and a bandaid always made it feel better, but it really did nothing to remove the booboo or prevent a scar.

Russ · Feb 12 07 08:55

P.C. wrote:
As far as Harper saying the program isn't 'worthy'......an effective program is absolutely worthy.......however, I think that the present program has proved to be ineffective.

I hear what you're saying Russ, but the fact is, theft and crime in those areas has NOT decreased.

To suggest that giving a drug addict 'free' drugs as the way to curb drug related crimes is no different than offering a clinic to give thieves free money or alcoholics a bar where they can drink with no cost or pedophiles a 'safe' place to access children. I'm not denying that there needs to be something. I just don't believe that this is the answer.

It feels like it's no different than when you were a child with a scraped knee...... a kiss and a bandaid always made it feel better, but it really did nothing to remove the booboo or prevent a scar.[/DIV]
Hmm, I think we will agree to disagree on this LOL.

I think it is working.. just not on the enforced scale it needs to be. Not all the addicts use it cause the cops harrass them outside the place, which is not beneficial to encouraging them to use the place. Its a way to keep an eye on the addicts and encourage them to use the other resources as well.

I agree in this unsupported form its not working, but expand it.. and not hinder it like the contradictory RCMP are doing and give it a chance. The reports on the clinic show its starting to work and shows results. the RCMP and harper release a 180 turn about report, ignoring the results.

But again, this is just my opinion. But I do believe the government will bungle it all up like they normally do, not doing enough fast enough. Ignore the victims and give criminals endless rights.

Lise · Feb 12 07 08:59

I don't think there can ever be a right or wrong way to go about this problem. I still stand by my stance that we should invest in a safe injection site because like Russ said, we can keep an eye on the addict and slowly control their intake. Give them a safe room so they can get high without endangering themselves or other people. Then over the course of time, lessen their dependency by adding less and less drug and eventually weaning them off. I believe this is the best possible course of action.

My two cents.

P.C. · Feb 12 07 09:07

I do believe the government will bungle it all up like they normally do, not doing enough fast enough. Ignore the victims and give criminals endless rights.

I don't think we disagree with what we'd both like to see. I think we only disagree with the method to get there. It's the same mamby pamby approach 'we' use for so many things. Young offenders who commit heinous crimes, but are protected by the 'Young Offenders Act' because they are 'innocent children'. A 5 year old knows when he's inflicted pain on another, and yet we think a 15 year old doesn't know that he might cause death if he shoots someone. I think we need to wake up.

I think this program just makes them FEEL like they are doing something. If they paid attention to their own research, they couldn't deny that it's not working.

Sportsdude · Feb 12 07 09:08

what they need to do is open more safe injection sites in places like Victori/Calgary/Winnipeg etc. so more druggies don't end up in Vancouver.

P.C. · Feb 12 07 09:15

Then over the course of time, lessen their dependency by adding less and less drug and eventually weaning them off. I believe this is the best possible course of action.

I hear what you're saying Lise, but that's NOT what the safe injection sites are doing. There IS NO structured program to wean people off of anything. There IS NO structured program to lessen their dependency. If that were the case, I would agree with you 100%.

They are offering a 'controlled' environment to do what they would normally do in the alley. It's merely a place to give them a clean needle in a clean surroundings and a place to dispose of the dirty needle with a medical technician standing by to ward off the event of an overdose. They need MORE.

Sportsdude · Feb 12 07 09:16

Basically what P.C. I think is saying is that the system is there except they haven't gone to step B (reduce injections and step C rehab.

P.C. · Feb 12 07 09:25

Basically what P.C. I think is saying is that the system is there except they haven't gone to step B (reduce injections and step C rehab.

That IS what I'm saying, but in reverse. Step C, should be Step A.....Rehab. Step B remains the same. Then Step C is a safe place to continue in the 'weaning' process.

I listened to a program once that had actual drug addicts at various stages of their recovery. There were an astounding amount of them, (some who had been clean for over 5 years), that were drawn to 'safety factor' safe injection sites offered, to taking up their habits again without the dangerous risks. That was a frightnening concept to me.

Article with interesting perspective on the situation.

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Lise · Feb 13 07 10:30

P.C. wrote:
Then over the course of time, lessen their dependency by adding less and less drug and eventually weaning them off. I believe this is the best possible course of action.

I hear what you're saying Lise, but that's NOT what the safe injection sites are doing. There IS NO structured program to wean people off of anything. There IS NO structured program to lessen their dependency. If that were the case, I would agree with you 100%.

They are offering a 'controlled' environment to do what they would normally do in the alley. It's merely a place to give them a clean needle in a clean surroundings and a place to dispose of the dirty needle with a medical technician standing by to ward off the event of an overdose. They need MORE.

OK, PC. I always thought they would wean them off eventually. My bad. I should be doing more research before shooting my mouth off. I always had the understanding that they were doing this.

Sportsdude · Feb 13 07 11:50

How does Insite work?[/p] Clients who enter Insite are assessed and led through a waiting area to a 12-seat injection room where they can inject their own drugs under the supervision of trained medical staff. They have access to clean injection equipment including spoons, tourniquets and water, aimed at reducing the spread of infectious diseases.[/p] After injecting, they move to a post-injection room where, if appropriate, staff can connect clients with other on-site services. These include primary care for the treatment of wounds, abscesses and other infections; addiction counseling and peer support; and referral to treatment services such as withdrawal management, opiate replacement therapy and other services.[/p] Along with the on-site coordinator, two registered nurses are present at all times with an addiction counsellor and physician support available on-call. Program assistants from our partner, the PHS Community Services Society, help greet and register people, as well as provide peer contact to encourage safe injection practices and orient drug users to use the site.[/p]