Pope attacks Canada

[Sportsdude]

 [DIV class=headline](its an old story just never posted it until now)

[DIV class=headline]

[DIV class=headline]Pope Cites Secularism in Canada Birth Rate

Pope Benedict XVI said Saturday that low birth rates in Canada are the result of the "pervasive effects of secularism" and asked the country's bishops to counter the trend by preaching the truth of Christ.

Benedict, who has spoken out several times in favor of large families, blamed Canada's low birth rate on social ills and moral ambiguities that result from secular ideology.

"Like many countries ... Canada is today suffering from the pervasive effects of secularism," Benedict told visiting bishops from Canada. "One of the more dramatic symptoms of this mentality, clearly evident in your own region, is the plummeting birth rate."

Canada's birth rate in 2005 was 10.5 births for every 1,000 people, according to Statistics Canada.

"Canadians look to you to be men of hope, preaching and teaching with passion the splendor of the truth of Christ who dispels the darkness and illuminates the way to renew ecclesiastical and civic life," the pontiff told the bishops, speaking in English.


[DIV class=headline]Separately, Benedict told the new Spanish ambassador to the Holy See that family based on marriage should not be "replaced or confused" by other institutions — an allusion to gay marriage, which is legal in Spain.

Benedict said he hoped his planned visit to Valencia, Spain, in July to attend a church gathering dedicated to families would give him "an opportunity to celebrate the beauty and fecundity of the family based on marriage, its very high calling and its essential social value."

The pope has been leading a church campaign in defense of traditional families.

He also reiterated church opposition to abortion and euthanasia.

"The church proclaims without reserve the primordial right to life, from conception to natural death, the right to birth, to create and live in a family, without it being substituted or confused by other forms or different institutions," Benedict said, speaking in Spanish.

Ambassador Francisco Vazquez Vazquez described the audience as "cordial and affectionate."

Ties between the Holy See and Spain have been strained since Spain's Sotgwpdts took office in 2004 with an agenda that has included legalizing gay marriage and making it easier for Spaniards to obtain divorce in the traditionally Roman Catholic country.
[/DIV]

[Gopher]

Strange how these crusty, celebrate old bachelors keep pontificating about the joys of procreation - is there a whiff of sour grapes about it all?

[Sportsdude]

I love the idiotness of the Pope. He tells countries about how many kids people should have when he himself is not a father.

Second, he only wants big families because that means more butts in his seats and more money coming back to the Vatican.

Third, the days of families in Canada having 19 childern are over. (John Chretien was born into a family of 19).  

[Gopher]

He'll never get it right, simply because (like all popes) he assumes he is rightness personified and incarnate.  

[Sportsdude]

Here's why I posted that article: Pope went to Spain today preaching "family values"

   [DIV class=headline]Pope in Spain backs family values [/DIV]Pope Benedict XVI has strongly defended the traditional family during a brief visit to the Spanish city of Valencia. The government has introduced a number of reforms including gay marriage, but the Pope insisted there were some things the Church had to reject.   "The family is a unique institution in God's plan, and the church cannot fail to proclaim and promote its fundamental importance," he said.   He also prayed at the scene of a subway crash which killed 42 people on Monday.   [DIV class=bo]



[DIV class=bo] "We ask God's comfort for those who remain and those who left us," he said.   The crash, the worst on the underground in Spanish history, happened when the train entered a station at double its normal speed.   Later in the Pope's visit, around one million people are expected to attend an open-air mass being celebrated in a park on Sunday.   As he arrived for his 24-hour visit, the Pope was met at the airport by King Juan Carlos, Queen Sofia and Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero.

 [DIV class=bo]It is only his third trip abroad since his election 14 months ago.   It comes a year after the Spanish government legalised marriage between homosexuals, sparking a bitter dispute with Spain's Catholic bishops.   The Pope and Mr Zapatero will hold talks, but Spanish officials say Mr Zapatero will not attend Sunday's mass.



[DIV class=footer]Story from BBC NEWS:
vny!://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/europe/5160688.stm[/DIV]

 

[Sportsdude]

All religion does these days is push themselves away from the mainstream.  Like here is some Ratzinger who was in the Nazi youth but never tried to get out of it. To me that makes him not a friend of mine.  My grandpa was conscripted into the german army.  Only got out when he because a POW and was picked up by the americans. If he had said he was really from Hungary and not Austria he would have been picked up by the Russians and they most likely would have probly killed him. (its what the russians did he was just a truck driver)

  Grandma was caught up in the war and was sent to a Russian concentration camp. Great Aunt was caught on the other side of the wall had to run through it during the night hiding from snipers.  Atleast the last Pope was against the war and had an underground movement. Ratzinger showed no attempt, he says he was 'conscripted' into it but he never joined an underground resistance movement which makes me have to question his loyality.  Then catholics get all up in arms with my questioning of him (I was born Lutheran) but unlike joe schmo my family was deeply affected by those idiots (nazis).

[Not telling]

Sportsdude, why do you keep posting about Canada on a US forum?
 
 No doubt I'm going to be incinerated for saying this, but I don't care: as a Canadian, I find your idealized obsession with Canada and Canadian news utterly disturbing.
 
 Be proud of your country and if you don't like it, try and change it from within. This nothing about being anti-American, so don't even go there. On the contrary, be proud to be American and as I say, if you don't like it, try and change it. Fleeing to Canada because you don't think you can in fact change it is nothing other than cowardice. In a sense, what you do here and what you did before on DV, is/was just that, flee to Canada.
 
 Yes, it's nice to have an American who knows about Canada -- but one who obsesses it about it, as you frankly do, is another matter. I've watched your stuff for a long time, on DV an here, and it shows that you think that your life can be improved in an emotional sense by moving one minute north of the 49th parallel. It won't.
 
 Sorry, there is no nice way of saying this stuff. As I say, I will get napalmed for this, but those who attack me and putatively defend you are in fact just doing you a disservice.
 
 
   

[Sportsdude]

Again I've said many times my anger is towards the midwest point of view which has taken over the country and not the country as a whole. (Although I hate american foreign policy on things).  Why am I doing this? Have you ever heard of experts on U.S. Canadian relations that go on tv all the time. Well I'm positioning myself in that direction and maybe even an ambassadoriship.  That might sound silly but I'm moving in that direction anyway.

  Why do I like Canada?

Its actually not all about politics as some might think.  Growing up here they always talk about the vast expansive west.  Well I've been west and its just as crowded as it is east. The 300th million person is going to be born in October this year and 450 million people are going to be living here in 50 years. In other words its crowded. Canada is not.

  I like the people and the history. I don't necessarily believe in the country but instead I believe in states and regions.  This is because america has become too polarized federally.

  I like the Westminister system of government. You can do more and you are also more accountable for your actions. For example, FDR couldn't put through all his reforms because the Supreme Court ruled that half of them were unconstitutional.  I like the checks and balances but it becomes stale really easily. For example instead of 1 government the U.S. acts like it has 3. Congress is its own Kingdom, White House does its own thing and the Supreme Court can pull everything under the rug.

The president only really has 4 years to work with the Congress if he or she is elected 2 terms. Why? Because campaigning takes a freaking year to do now. For example if I got elected president in '08 and had the other party in control of congress and supreme court I might as well resign. The other party won't let you do anything because its become an autocratic system with two parties. And elections now take a year to do. Ever heard of election year politics? Well thats what happens to Congress. They want to stay elected so they forget everything and just worry about looking good in front of the camera and getting elected.  What I'm saying is that the American system is broken. And I'm not the only american on the board who thinks this.

  And I've got this longing to be an immigrant complex in me thats hard to explain but in short its because I feel lazy and too pampered due to what my grandparents went through. So I've purposely made myself struggle my entire life as punishment for being lucky where I am.

[Not telling again]

  Sportsdude wrote:
Again I've said many times my anger is towards the midwest point of view which has taken over the country and not the country as a whole. (Although I hate american foreign policy on things).  Why am I doing this? Have you ever heard of experts on U.S. Canadian relations that go on tv all the time. Well I'm positioning myself in that direction and maybe even an ambassadoriship.  That might sound silly but I'm moving in that direction anyway.
 
Why do I like Canada?
Its actually not all about politics as some might think.  Growing up here they always talk about the vast expansive west.  Well I've been west and its just as crowded as it is east. The 300th million person is going to be born in October this year and 450 million people are going to be living here in 50 years. In other words its crowded. Canada is not.
 
I like the people and the history. I don't necessarily believe in the country but instead I believe in states and regions.  This is because america has become too polarized federally.
 
I like the Westminister system of government. You can do more and you are also more accountable for your actions. For example, FDR couldn't put through all his reforms because the Supreme Court ruled that half of them were unconstitutional.  I like the checks and balances but it becomes stale really easily. For example instead of 1 government the U.S. acts like it has 3. Congress is its own Kingdom, White House does its own thing and the Supreme Court can pull everything under the rug.

The president only really has 4 years to work with the Congress if he or she is elected 2 terms. Why? Because campaigning takes a freaking year to do now. For example if I got elected president in '08 and had the other party in control of congress and supreme court I might as well resign. The other party won't let you do anything because its become an autocratic system with two parties. And elections now take a year to do. Ever heard of election year politics? Well thats what happens to Congress. They want to stay elected so they forget everything and just worry about looking good in front of the camera and getting elected.  What I'm saying is that the American system is broken. And I'm not the only american on the board who thinks this.
 
And I've got this longing to be an immigrant complex in me thats hard to explain but in short its because I feel lazy and too pampered due to what my grandparents went through. So I've purposely made myself struggle my entire life as punishment for being lucky where I am.
 Look, I've spoken too mean and I apologise. I shoot from the hip too much without really meaning to do so.
 
 I think that it's great you love Canada, but first of all, we are not the be all and end all. In many ways, we are simply you guys with snowboards.
 
 Secondly, before you can really be proud of Canada, be proud of where you are from. Especially, Missouri. You had Mark Twain for starters!
 
 Thirdly, I'll welcome you to Canada if you want to move here, heck, I'll even carry your bags at the airport to welcome you, but for you own sake, I'd think that you should do so for positive reasons, not because you feel angry with, or displaced within your own, country.
 
 
 
 
 

[Sportsdude]

A lot of it is for positive reasons.

  its B.C.

This is not about avoiding things, its about starting over.

  Missouri is weird. Yeah Mark Twain. But T.S. Elliot was born in St. Louis and 99% of the population doesn't even know that. Or almost 100% of the population doesn't even know why st. louis is french or even that it is french. As one dumb girl said in my history class "I didn't know Mississippi was a state".  Most people here can't even name there own state capital. (jefferson city).    

[Still not telling! :)]

Well, look, as far I am concerned, you're always going to be welcome up here. My slight trollness earlier obscures the core, serious point: if it is for positive reasons, then well and fine.
 
 But don't believe the stuff about us being any more aware of our own country. I went to school with kids who thought that Toronto was the capital and meet adults who don't even know that we have a Senate.
 
 I was in a hardware store in Kits one time and Pat Carney came in with her daughter. She asked the clerk about some things for about 10 minutes, bought the crap and then left. After that, I said the clerk, "That was Pat Carney. She negotiated the Free Trade Agreement." This girl literally had never heard of Pat Carney or the FTA and thought that I was making it all up!
   

[Sportsdude]

Yeah I know who she is, she's a senator now.

Here's the biggest thing anyone from any country should know, if the U.S. comes up with some kind of trade idea on there own and want another country to sign it with them saying its in their best interests well its actually not. Since day one the U.S. only really has cared about itself and not what the consquences of this 'self adoration' will lead to. If you look back at history besides WW1 and WW2 every military conflict was the consquence of the U.S. trying to get there hands into everything in the world.

[Still not telling :)]

Dude, not disagreeing with you. My point was that this person literally didn't know about one of the most major events in the history of her country, one that literally impacted upon her own humble job at Home-Hardware. She literally thought I was f*&^ing with her. We can be pig-ignorant too.
 
 I guess I'm inclined to think of a Catholic priest I once knew from a mutual friend (maybe metaphorically this is meaningful to our own dialogue: he later came out and became an Anglican b/c he could no longer live a lie within a Church that hated him!): perhaps ironically (see above) he told me that was involved in converting a lot of Anglicans to being Catholics. He said that he often used to cut short whatever the training they had to do was, on the grounds that they had often already done the study and knew more about the Catholic church than most Catholics. He said though that when he did so, he would say to them, "Don't expect a rose garden in the Catholic church."
 
 I don't post this to insult anyone who is a Catholic, but in some ways, rather b/c I think that his words are apposite here.
 
 And I guess in a sense, I got the thread back onto topic!