Hiroshima - Before and After

Dissident · Jun 17 06 10:53

TehBorken wrote:

Full Disclosure: Yes, a long time ago I worked at Hanford ("Westinghouse-Hanford" back then) for Battele and Rockwell and a few other groups. I'm well-acquainted with the nukies, the 'glow-to guys' (ha ha) and SWP, SNM, and all that other junk. I've also done work for other nuke farms like Sandia, Lawrence Livermore Labs, INEL, Rocky Flats and GE Vallecitos. I've spent more time in poop-suits than I care to remember. I was superficially contaminated three times at Hanford (doh!) so I don't have very fond memories of it, to be honest.

Oy, TB. That does not sound fun. I have a cousin in Richland whom I remember visiting a couple of times as a kid. We would actually go fishing in the Columbia and Snake Rivers in the area—and eat the salmon we caught. Now that I've learned about some of the weird health problems that sailboarders in the area are dealing with I'm wondering about some of those fish (and I'll bet these days there are no fish in the river at all).

TehBorken · Jun 17 06 11:03

Dissident wrote:
Now that I've learned about some of the weird health problems that sailboarders in the area are dealing with I'm wondering about some of those fish (and I'll bet these days there are no fish in the river at all).

There are still fish in the river, they're just 50 feet long, glow in the dark, and have segemented tentacles with a dozen basket-ball-sized eyes on the end. But I'm sure it has nothing to do with the radiation!

Dissident · Jun 17 06 11:21

lol: please post pics of these fish. They must be a sight to see!

TehBorken · Jun 17 06 11:25

Dissident wrote:
lol: please post pics of these fish. They must be a sight to see!

I think this one lost its tentacles....

Or maybe this was one of them....

Dissident · Jun 17 06 11:34

Very good, TB. I'm laughing myself into a better mood. Bet that second one is particularly tasty.

Sportsdude · Jun 17 06 05:51

Oh yeah polluted rivers in the u.s. are common. There are huge and I mean HUGE catfish in the mississippi river (Some get up to 100+ pounds, normal size for a catfish is 5 to 10 pounds) but these fish are not health. They are chalk full of mercury because thats what is in most of the river, mercury. Its only safe to eat those fish once a month and pregnant women should not eat them (obviously). Rivers are polluted like you wouldn't believe. When I get my camera (this week sometime) I'll go down to the farm and go on the river bed beach and take a picture of the water (its not clean).

Gunta · Jun 17 06 06:22

Why do the serious threads here turn into circle jerks of pointless rhetoric?

Anyhow, Yes Tehborken nukes are scary but it isn't really the device itself I am trying to justify. It is the "spanking" that japan received. Whether it was done by a nuke or another weapon, guns, knives etc etc is not an issue. I think if we look at the threat that Japan was and it's atrocities it is safe to say they got what they deserved. If my country went and started murdering and raping American children and woman I wouldn't be too surprised if the US bombed me. In fact, I think that is why many Japanese don't hold grudges against the yanks. The basically recognize that they deserved it for all the suffering they had caused. Now I look at it as both strategically efficient and as a PUNISHMENT. Many can say, "Yes, it was necessary" but then ignore the fact that they had it coming to them completely by principle.

Sportsdude · Jun 17 06 06:33

While you have a point Gunta. Thats merely of Japan's culture thats inbeded into them that they now realise when they look at history in that context. It also happend to Germany as well. Its called "Never again" syndrome. When one society is taken over by a bunch of pyschos Tojo in Japan and Hitler in Germany, Marco in Spain and Mousoulini in Italy they end up making safe guards that those types of cultures can never come out again and the become pacifists. This should have happend to the U.S. after the civil war but it didn't and look at what it brought us. It sort of happend in Canada too. The FLQ basically killed any sort of militant uprising in Quebec. The seperatist realised that in order for them to reach there goal they had to do it politically not through violence. This hasn't happend in the u.s. though because the right wing fanatics still support bombing abortion clincs and throwing women in prison for abortions.

TehBorken · Jun 17 06 06:35

Gunta wrote:
Why do the serious threads here turn into circle jerks of pointless rhetoric?

I don't know, but I'll bet you have a theory.

Anyhow, Yes Tehborken nukes are scary but it isn't really the device itself I am trying to justify. It is the "spanking" that japan received.

I'm having a hard time figuring out where we're disagreeing. Are you one of those people who can't take "yes" for an answer?

Gunta · Jun 17 06 06:44

So you are saying that the bombing of Japan was an appropriate punishment?

And yes, I have a theory for everything.

TehBorken · Jun 17 06 06:53

Gunta wrote:
So you are saying that the bombing of Japan was an appropriate punishment?[/b]

Dude, don't put words in my mouth, I'll just spit them out.

What I said was "It seems at the time there was no other realistically viable option". The Japanese were vowing to fight to the death (and they most likely would have). The decision was made in part as an attempt to avoid thousands (or tens of thousands) of American casualties. It wasn't, by all appearances, done as "punishment" per se.

And yes, I have a theory for everything.

So does my 12-year old, but (shockingly) he's wrong a lot of the time. I'd be more impressed if you had a Theory Of Everything.

Gunta · Jun 17 06 07:25

I am confused now.

And justifiably so.

First I state:

Many can say, "Yes, it was necessary" but then ignore the fact that they had it coming to them completely by principle.

Principle has nothing to do with whether it was NECESSARY which you are now claiming as the soul justification. Principle on the situation reflects the retribution that occurred when the bomb was dropped and PUNISHED the Japanese......

So you say you agree with me and I hate to take yes as an answer, then I reiterate the statement in the form of a question and you get all perturbed and sarcastic like a passive aggressive dungeons and dragons fanatic claiming that I am putting words in your mouth.

And BTW, when it is in the form of a question, it isn't putting words in your mouth. I could only do that if it was a STATEMENT and I was advertising that statement as your opinion.

LOL

Gunta · Jun 17 06 07:27

[SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic"]And yes, I have a theory for everything.[/SPAN]

So does my 12-year old, but (shockingly) he's wrong a lot of the time. I'd be more impressed if you had a Theory [SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic"]Of[/SPAN] Everything.

and what's this supposed to mean?

TehBorken · Jun 17 06 08:28

Gunta wrote:
Principle has nothing to do with whether it was NECESSARY which you are now claiming as the soul justification.

[span style="font-weight: normal;"]No, I never claimed that. I said that they used it (the apparent willingness to fight to the last man) as justification and because of that they apparently felt (decided) it was "necessary". (And it's "sole" justification, not "soul".) [/span]

Principle on the situation reflects the retribution that occurred when the bomb was dropped and PUNISHED the Japanese......

I confess I could not parse this sentence fragment.

[/div] [div style="font-style: italic;"]
So you say you agree with me and I hate to take yes as an answer, then I reiterate the statement in the form of a question and you get all perturbed and sarcastic like a passive aggressive dungeons and dragons fanatic claiming that I am putting words in your mouth.[/div]
Lol, I don't know what to make of this sentence (claim? assertion?). There are no hidden meanings in what I wrote. I think you're reading a lot more into it that was there.

[div]
And BTW, when it is in the form of a question, it isn't putting words in your mouth.

Well, actually it is putting words in my mouth- by assigning an interpretation or rephrasing what I said and then making it appear as though you're just trying to confirm or clarify what I really did say. Again, look at what I wrote and take it at face value. You can analyze it all you want, but it'll be a waste of time. I meant what I wrote, and wrote what I meant. That's all.

I could only do that if it was a STATEMENT and I was advertising that statement as your opinion.

No, but this is a common method of being disingenuous. As in, "By the way, have you stopped beating your wife?" (It presupposes that you are, in fact, beating your wife.)

LOL

Okay, that part I understand. It means "Lots Of Love", right?

TehBorken · Jun 17 06 08:32

Gunta wrote:
So does my 12-year old, but (shockingly) he's wrong a lot of the time. I'd be more impressed if you had a Theory Of Everything.
[/div] [div style="font-style: italic;"]and what's this supposed to mean?
It's a reference to the long-sought after "Theory Of Everything" (TOE), a theory of theoretical physics and mathematics that fully explains and links together all known physical phenomena. At first Einstien's Theory Of Relativity was thought to possibly be the TOE, but it falls short in a number of areas, primarily quantum mechanics.