Three people killed over Muhammad cartoon

[God]

All this over a cartoon.....isn't religion great?
[font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]PESHAWAR,Pakistan (AP) - Gunfire and rioting erupted Wednesday as tens ofthousands of people took to the streets in several Pakistani citiesduring the country's third consecutive day of violent protests over theProphet Muhammad cartoons. Three people were killed, including an8-year-old boy.[/font][/font][/p][font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]More than70,000 people flooded the streets of the northwestern city of Peshawar,said Saeed Wazir, a senior police officer. The massive crowd went on arampage, torching businesses and fighting police, who struck back withtear gas and batons. A bus terminal operated by South Korea's SammiCorp. was torched, police said.[/font][/font][/p][font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]Protestersburned a KFC restaurant, three movie theaters and the offices of themain mobile phone company in the country. A Norwegian mobile phonecompany's offices were also ransacked. Gunfire was heard near theburning KFC, as police tried to clear people from a main street,witnesses said.[/font][/font][/p][font face="Verdana,Sans-serif"][font color="black" size="2"]An8-year-old boy died after being struck in the face by a bullet fired bya protester, police officer Shahid Khan said. A 25-year-old man waskilled by an electric cable that was snapped by gunfire, said the man'scousin, Jehangir Khan.[/font][/font][/p]

[Witch]

I sincerely doubt that God has anything to do with any of the horrible atrocities perpetrated by humans in the name of religion, no matter what religion it is.

I also doubt God would bother to post here to bitch about it.

[WWJP]

Lol, What Would Jesus Post?

[TehBorken]

I also doubt God would bother to post here to bitch about it.

Yeah, he'd post on DV first. lol  

[Future Canadian]

I sincerely doubt that God has anything to do with any of the horrible atrocities perpetrated by humans in the name of religion, no matter what religion it is.[/DIV] [/DIV]I also doubt God would bother to post here to bitch about it.[/DIV] [/DIV]Forgive me for wandering slightly off topic but you hit on my point about religion in general. Whether or not there is a god is a moot point no matter what one's belief. The existance of a god is both impossible to prove or disprove so WhyTF bother arguing about it? Just get on with your life and do what you feel must be done. Your God/Gaia/Random Chance gave you a full life and set of faculties to use, so use them (including a critical thinking mind). One's own personal beliefs will guide them if one does what is right according to their beliefs. The full Greater Good can be achieved.But all this shite bickering and proselytizing and fighting is the real problem. Nothing will come of telling others that their beliefs are wrong and they have to follow another set of beliefs.And honestly, I don't even think a god would even be aware of your existence. A being that most religions describe would have to such a gigantic concept, that we don't even have the brain capacity to begin to set up a paradigm for even trying to imagine this creature, much less to determine its wishes. If you plant a field of grass do you tend every single sprout? I don't think Mohammed really would give a toss about a few hack cartoons. That wouldn't be on his agenda if he were here right now.

[Future Canadian]

[FONT size=4][SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold"]Lol, What Would Mohammed Post?[/SPAN][/FONT]

[TehBorken]

I don't think Mohammed really would give a toss about a few hack cartoons.

I agree. Of all the pointless things for people to get worked up about, this is near the top of the list. Is the Muslim religion so fragile that a cartoon can cause it harm or bring about its downfall?

Really, the silliness over this thing is reaching epic proportions!

[Witch]

I sincerely doubt that God has anything to do with any of the horrible atrocities perpetrated by humans in the name of religion, no matter what religion it is.[/DIV] [/DIV]I also doubt God would bother to post here to bitch about it.[/DIV] [/DIV]Forgive me for wandering slightly off topic but you hit on my point about religion in general. Whether or not there is a god is a moot point no matter what one's belief. The existance of a god is both impossible to prove or disprove so WhyTF bother arguing about it? Just get on with your life and do what you feel must be done.

You've never actually been a member of an absoluteist religion, have you FC?

The absolutelist mindset not only gives you the right to do anything, so long as God or his designated spokesman says it, but you have the responsibility to do it. The absoluteist mindset sees freedom of religion as an abomination. The absoluteist mindset sees conversion as a matter of public safety. The absoluteist mindset sees the entire universe as a battleground  between the forces of Good and Evil in perpetual, violent, and bloody warfare. The absoluteist mindset sees their particular values and moral strictures as being absolutely necessary for everyone to adhere to, no matter what your particular belifs are, and they feel it their moral duty before God to force you to abide by those moral strictures. There's very little difference between Muslims rioting over a cartoon of Mohammed, and Christians conspiring to commit financial blackmail to force stores to say "Merry Christmas".

[TehBorken]

Lol, What Would [em]Mohammed[/em] Post?


[font style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255); background-color: rgb(255, 159, 64);" size="7"]LOLOLOL!![/font]

[Future Canadian]

Excellent points Witch. I think I was dancing around the point that fundamentalism is the true evil. And if the element of having to convert others was completely removed from world religions the world would be a much better place. I would even appreciate faith at that point.[/DIV]You are correct that there is no stopping the absolutist mindset. They are worse than the Borg.

[Witch]

Most of the worlds religions do not have the requirement to convert others. The few that do just happen to be the largest, due in no small part to the requirement to convert others. The major factor in their overwhelming growth is the doctrine of forced conversion by the sword, which was practiced by all the Abramic religions until very recently.

Most of the worlds religions accept that other peoples' religion is as valid as theirs.

[kevlar]

Although I grew up in a fairly Catholic enviroment, went to chuch on Sundays and became an alter boy, I really don't consider myself that religious. I guess that is why I have always had a hard time in reasoning why the world is so full of trife in the name of religion. [/DIV]Now in the barrage of jokes and emails I get on a daily basis I can recall the odd cartoon or joke about Jesus Christ on the cross. Now I'm not saying I agree with these type of jokes but why is there such aggression. It's great that people have such passion but why be so fanatical. Why all the bloodshed ?[/DIV]Would any God any it this way? I just don't understand?

[tenkani]

Great thread, and  *gasp*  it hasn't degenerated into a racist flame-fest!!!    

You guys have made a lot of excellent points. I read/heard somewhere (sorry, brain's not quite working yet) a discussion about priorities in the Islamic world. And about protest. Recently in Iraq, an insurgent exploded a bomb and killed a number of civilians. This insurgent then posed as a civilian and drove some of the survivors to the hospital, whereapon he detonated a second bomb, killing the survivors and surrounding medical personnel.

Did the moderate Islamic community take to the streets, and protest this horror (or hundreds like it) that was comitted in their name? No. But when a cartoon is drawn of their religious leader...

Most Muslims are not mindless, bloodthirsty fanatics. The problem is that the mainstream Muslim community, for a variety of reasons, seems incapable of self-criticism, that is, attacking elements within itself that many Muslims claim are "anti-Islamic". Everywhere I turn, I hear that Islam is a "religion of peace", yet when a terrorist/insurgent commits an act of barbarism in the name of Islam, the mainstream Muslim community in general is silent. The incident with these stupid cartoons proves that when motivated, these believers take to the streets and voice their opinions strongly. So why do cartoons motivate them so much more strongly than the brutal deaths of countless fellow Muslims? Sorry, this is turning into a ramble. I guess my point is that the "problem" with the Muslim world goes beyond the fanatical core of fundamentalists responsible for carrying on the worldwide Jihad. A true "religion of peace" would mandate the immediate condemnation of all acts of brutality against civilians. So why the silence?

[Tor Johnston]

One thing I don't think was mentioned is that the Muslim world isacollective culture, unlike North America & Europe. Although someofus may attend church every Sunday, most Muslims will attendtheirmosques many, many times a week.

Itis the political view in Islam not to depict Mohammed. ThepoliticalIslamists have been baited and are breeding Europeananti-Islamsentiment as a result, allowing perhaps for European sympathywith theAmerican war effort.

It is my opinion that when theUSA attacks Iran in the next few months, there will be far more supportfrom the EU and European citizens. It won't be Iraq all over again.

Let's not forget the real reason Saddam was taken: he was planning to sell oil on the Euro to undermine the US dollar.

[Tor Johnston]

(What's with the run-ons?) I'll try that again...

One thing I don't think was mentioned is that the Muslim worldis a collective culture, unlike North America & Europe. Althoughsome of us may attend church every Sunday, most Muslims willattend their mosques many, many times a week.

Itis the politicalview in Islam not to depict Mohammed. The political Islamists have beenbaited and are breeding European anti-Islam sentiment as a result,allowing perhaps for European sympathy with the American war effort.

Itis my opinion that when the USA attacks Iran in the next few months,there will be far more support from the EU and European citizens. Itwon't be Iraq all over again.

Let's not forget the real reason Saddam was taken: he was planning to sell oil on the Euro to undermine the US dollar.