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General Category => Discover Seattle! => Topic started by: Lise on Feb 19 07 09:25

Title: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Lise on Feb 19 07 09:25
Do you think we should tip in general? I believe we should tip for a good service. However, I feel obligated to tip even though I get bad service. (like a bad haircut)

  What are you thoughts?
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Aboozer on Feb 19 07 09:41
I tip based on preformance not percentage. In a restaurant when I am receiving bad service before I give a not so good tip I also look around to at the servers work load.
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: ripper on Feb 19 07 09:49
I used to tip according to service provided. Now i tip 15% or more regardless of service just to ensure that the crunch in my salad is from crutons and not something else.
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: purelife on Feb 19 07 09:56
I tip according to service.  If the staff is super friendly, went out of his/her way to make our stay comfortable and enjoyable, then my tip will be quite high.  If not, I'll tip at a bit less than 10% for terrible service AND I would say something, depending on my mood.
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Gopher on Feb 19 07 11:14
I give a good tip if the service is good, otherwise nothing (unless it's made clear that it's included in the price, then a) I can't avoid it and b) I don't mind). It's when I feel morally or emotionally manipulated into giving something that my hackles start to rise.  
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: ripper on Feb 19 07 11:35
Gopher, while i admire your principles, i have to question your judgement. Unless you plan on not returning that waiter or waitress will probably remember you. They even have a website called Bitter Waitress to complain about stiffers. Would you ever feel comfortable eating there again especially if you are seated at said person's section.
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: purelife on Feb 19 07 11:43
I do believe in tipping, is the answer to Lise's original question.  It's customary here.  It's expected.  If it wasn't customary and expected, then one wouldn't have to feel bad to not leave a tip.  But generally, I always leave something, even if it's the worst service ever imagineable, which I have not encountered yet.

  I've waitressed before and it's not easy being a server, and a pleasant one at the same time.  I give credit to servers who try their best after long hours on his/her feet.  I've never encountered a table who left nothing behind.  If I did, I'd feel bad and would wonder what went wrong all evening.  Getting a nice tip made me feel appreciated.  It says "Thank you, I enjoyed my dining experience with you today."
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Gopher on Feb 19 07 11:48
ripper wrote:
 Gopher, while i admire your principles, i have to question your judgement. Unless you plan on not returning that waiter or waitress will probably remember you. They even have a website called Bitter Waitress to complain about stiffers. Would you ever feel comfortable eating there again especially if you are seated at said person's section.

.....

Yes, I would feel comforatble sitting there again. I'm employed in the quasi-voluntary sector and therefore my extra-mural philanthropy has to restrict itself merely to helping keep someone in employment. Were I assured that the 'tippee' (??) had an even less lower income than my own, then perhaps I would do otherwise.  
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: purelife on Feb 19 07 11:52
Yeah, it could be tough to leave a tip when one doesn't make much or is tight on cash.  I try not to dine out too often when this is the case with me.  
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Lil Me on Feb 19 07 12:00
Y'all need to remember that Servers MUST tip-out a set percentage of sales (usually 2-5%?) to the kitchen and bartender regardless of whether the customer left a tip.  The computer ordering system tracks tip-out totals.  So if you stiff the server, you've COST them money.  
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: purelife on Feb 19 07 12:04
Good point, Lil Me.  I think that that's done more at a chain-level operated restaurants, ie, Cactus Club, Milestones, Earl's, The Keg, etc.
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: ripper on Feb 19 07 12:11
Purelife. the waiter or waitresses have to tip out even in fancy restaurants. In 5 star restaurants the busboy or busgirl brings you your meal. The waiters job is to interact with the customer.
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: purelife on Feb 19 07 12:38
Ah yes, and fancy restaurants.  Forgot about them.  I rarely dine there, so didn't include them in my list.  :)  

  Are you a fine diner, Ripper?
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: purelife on Feb 19 07 12:41
I do like the idea of how tips are shared amongst the staff.  It's all about TeamWork.  There's no "I" in TeamWork.  :)
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Lise on Feb 19 07 01:15
Well, it's their fault if they're acting like asses when they're serving mua. I mean, I come to a restaurant and expect to be treated fairly decently (and by that, I mean my meals hot, on time and what I order). I do not expect to be treated like a celebrity star or a queen so if you give me good service, I'll reward you with a decent tip. Fair's fair.

  What about buffets? Do you guys tip at buffets that you have to line up and get food yourself? I usually leave a small amount, not a lot because I'm the one that's getting my own food, forks... whatever myself.
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Orca on Feb 19 07 01:21
 In the days when an ice cream sundae cost much less, a 10-year-old boy entered a hotel coffee shop and sat at a table. A waitress put a glass of water in front of him.

 How much is an ice cream sundae?"

 "Fifty cents," replied the waitress.

 The little boy pulled his hand out of his pocket and studied a number of coins in it. "How much is a dish of plain ice cream?" he inquired.

 Some people were now waiting for a table and the waitress was a bit impatient. "Thirty-five cents," she said brusquely.

 The little boy again counted the coins. "I'll have the plain ice cream," he said.

 The waitress brought the ice cream, put the bill on the table and walked away. The boy finished the ice cream, paid the cashier and departed. When the waitress came back, she began wiping down the table and then swallowed hard at what she saw. There, placed neatly beside the empty dish, were two nickels and five pennies-her tip.

Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Lise on Feb 19 07 01:23
Ah, that's such a nice story. Thanks, Orca.
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Orca on Feb 19 07 01:25
 I tried to tip more than I use to now, after I found out many waiters & waitresses live by tip money (not salaries).    
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: ripper on Feb 19 07 01:35
Yes i prefer to eat in fine restaurants as opposed to the chain restaurants. The meals taste better and are healthier for you.
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Sportsdude on Feb 19 07 01:42
I'm a big tipper. The best was that one girl at the Vietnamese place.... (http:///forums/richedit/smileys/Happy/10.gif)  
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: P.C. on Feb 19 07 05:41
I notice most answers here are if and why you tip.  If the question is 'Do you believe in tipping', my answer is no.  However, I DO tip and I tip well ONLY because it has become customary.  I absolutely don't buy into the 'if you don't tip them you're costing them money' guilt trip.  These systems are set up by their employer....not their customers and complaints such as these should be taken up with their employers.

  I never used to have a problem with it, until I heard so much complaining about who left only this much and who left only that much.  Not to mention the nightmare stories I've heard of what people have had done to them if their tip isn't considered satisfactory.  IT'S A TIP !  IT'S FREE MONEY.

  I'd much rather see employers be required to pay their servers an appropriate wage than paying the minimum, and expecting the public to pick up the difference.  They would be more selective of who they hire....their turnover would be cut substantially (and that costs BIG money) and  quality service would be a standard requirement.  

  [img style="CURSOR: pointer" onclick=url(this.src); src="http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/konfus/k030.gif" border=0]

 
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: TehBorken on Feb 19 07 06:15
  Orca wrote:
Do you believe in tipping?

Do I believe in tipping? Hell, man, I've seen it!
 
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: P.C. on Feb 19 07 06:28
Sounds like someone needs a spanking.  [img style="CURSOR: pointer" onclick=url(this.src); src="http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/more/bigs/a077.gif" border=0]
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: TehBorken on Feb 19 07 06:50
 P.C. wrote:
Sounds like someone needs a spanking.  

Promises, promises.....

 
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: P.C. on Feb 19 07 06:55
[img style="CURSOR: pointer" onclick=url(this.src); src="http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/more/bigs/c032.gif" border=0].
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Lise on Feb 19 07 07:40
You two need a private room with tons of tipping from both sides!!! (http://discoverseattle.net/forums/richedit/smileys/Happy/3.gif)
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Sportsdude on Feb 19 07 07:41
I'm scared to show my face at the vietnamese place lol after the giant tip haha I still laugh over that.  
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: P.C. on Feb 19 07 07:43
Why would you be afraid if you left a big tip?
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Sportsdude on Feb 19 07 07:44
I have no idea, its a family run place and well I know the girl would probably be working their if I went in.
lol
 
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Queer Eye on Feb 19 07 07:51
I'm a big believer in tipping!  

  Isn't it obvious that the prices will increase dramatically if there's no tipping?  Do you think that the owners love you so much that they'll take a cut in their profits?  How does the customer win?  Wouldn't you rather have a nubile babe serving you or one the same type of people that clean toilets, deliver pizza or drive cabs (no offense to any of them)?  If you're a regular, and you tip well, you'll notice the difference!  If you want to be cheap and mean spirited, I suppose you can stiff them if you never intend on going there again.  But if you're a regular, you will be treated accordingly.  Believe it!  The pizza drivers may not remember your name, but they recognize your address; your barber will use the clippers instead of taking his time with scissors etc.

  The irony is that if you're a regular and you don't tip well, you won't see any point in tipping because you're not treated that well and you'll feel justified for stiffing them.  It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.  
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: P.C. on Feb 19 07 08:11
 I agree with most of that QE.  But there are countries where there is no tipping.  Australia, Cuba.....etc.  Service there is bar none.  I serve the public in my job, sometimes up to 300 people a day.  If tipping is given for good service, why isn't it given for good service in all industries.  (don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that I SHOULD be tipped)...just makes me curious why this one industry requires this.  
 
Would you tip the gal that brought you 6 pairs of jeans to the change room and looked for a nice sweater to go with them at the Bay?  Why not?  I don't get it.  Do you tip the teller at the bank because she was pleasant and efficient?  Why not?  What about the gal who carefully rang your groceries through and bagged them carefully.  Why not?  What about your real estate agent who showed you over 20 houses before you made a decision.  Why not?
 
Here's a classic.  The beer and wine store where I live, has a tip jar at the counter where you check out.  What the H is that all about?  But if you walk up to the counter and say....I'll have a bottle of Glennfidich a case of Sleemans and a bottle of Tanqueray....they'll point to the aisles where it is.  Where does a tip come in for this kind of thing.  It's out of control I tell ya.
 
I guess I just don't understand how this got to where it is.
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Marik on Feb 19 07 08:16
 Yes, I tip, even though I don't really like the idea.
I pretty much look for what everyone else mentioned before, (service with a smile, food is hot, etc.) but also for the server to NOT keep asking me "How is your food today?" 2 times, fine... but I'll ask them to stop coming around to my table and asking me questions after that. And if they do keep coming around = less tip. Let me eat in peace!!!
   
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: P.C. on Feb 19 07 08:34
I just don't know what tipping tells us anymore.

  You get these guys that have more money than God, and they'll tip huge regardless of what they're eating, how long it takes to be served, bad attitude waitresses....it doesn't matter.  You tip because it's expected behaviour.  So what does it mean?

  So some poor couple that scrimps and saves to have a night out once every 4 months and tips modestly is all of a sudden some kind of low-life that should be treated like crap?

  If tipping MUST be an expected practise, it should at the very least get back to tipping for [FONT size=4]exceptional service[/FONT]. (the GOOD service part should be covered by their wages)    
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Queer Eye on Feb 19 07 09:11
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Would you tip the gal that brought you 6 pairs of jeans to the change room and looked for a nice sweater to go with them at the Bay?  Why not?  I don't get it.  Do you tip the teller at the bank because she was pleasant and efficient?  Why not?  What about the gal who carefully rang your groceries through and bagged them carefully.  Why not?  What about your real estate agent who showed you over 20 houses before you made a decision.  Why not?
 
Here's a classic.  The beer and wine store where I live, has a tip jar at the counter where you check out.  What the H is that all about?  But if you walk up to the counter and say....I'll have a bottle of Glennfidich a case of Sleemans and a bottle of Tanqueray....they'll point to the aisles where it is.  Where does a tip come in for this kind of thing.  It's out of control I tell ya.
 
I guess I just don't understand how this got to where it is.[/div][/div][/td][/tr][/tbody][/table]
Wouldn't you consider sales commission a tip of some sorts?  I don't think anyone at the Bay has ever gone out of their way to help me, but at finer establishments, they trip over themselves to help you out, don't they?  I don't tip the bank teller or cashier because there is no difference in the quality of the service between employees.  The only way they could improve it is if they have hot chicks pretending to flirt with you - like a restaurant!  In addition, at restaurants you can get seated better, free samples, send back food, faster service etc.  How would tipping someone at McDonald's improve your experience?  The speed and quality of the food are the same, you carry your own food and dispose of the tray yourself.  How can you "stiff" a McDonald's employee?  Hence, no tip.  The tip is optional at your beer and wine store example, and I'm sure the vast majority don't tip because pointing to an aisle doesn't really involve any quality difference between different employees (as long as they're both accurate).  In countries where there is no tip, don't they charge more for food or thoughtfully include the gratuity in the check?  If the tip is already included in the check, what incentive does the server have to go out of their way?  With real estate commission, don't you think a realtor will give priority to the big spenders?  Since you mentioned other countries, there is rampant corruption in many places where nothing gets done without a bribe, which is basically the same thing as a tip.  If you want your passport processed faster, don't you have to pay an extra "administrative fee?"  Would you care to join the month(s) long wait for an MRI in Canada or would you rather just pay for it the same day across the border?  Call it what you want, but we all "tip" everyday whenever we want something done better.
 
The bottom line is that if you want a perceptible difference in quality, you're going to have to pay for it.  It's as simple as that.
 
I tip at least 20% and even more wherever I'm a regular.
 
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: P.C. on Feb 19 07 09:42
 Wouldn't you consider sales commission a tip of some sorts?

  No....I consider that the cost of doing business.

  I don't think anyone at the Bay has ever gone out of their way to help me, but at finer establishments, they trip over themselves to help you out, don't they?  I don't tip the bank teller or cashier because there is no difference in the quality of the service between employees.

  True....but do you tip differently if you've gotten good service as opposed to exceptional service....mediocre service...bordering on poor service?  Does the 'difference in the quality of the service between waitresses' make a difference in whether you will leave a tip.   Not likely, because it is expected that we do otherwise.  I think a standard percentage is the norm.....regardless.

   The only way they could improve it is if they have hot chicks pretending to flirt with you - like a restaurant!  In addition, at restaurants you can get seated better, free samples, send back food, faster service etc.  How would tipping someone at McDonald's improve your experience?  The speed and quality of the food are the same, you carry your own food and dispose of the tray yourself.  How can you "stiff" a McDonald's employee?

  How could I get seated better, faster service, better service, more pleasant service etc. if they don't even KNOW at this point if they are going to get tipped 10 bucks or 100 bucks ???  This is the part that mystifies me.

    If the tip is already included in the check, what incentive does the server have to go out of their way?  

  A pay cheque ?  Being gainfully employed ?

   Since you mentioned other countries, there is rampant corruption in many places where nothing gets done without [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffbf"]a bribe, which is basically the same thing as a tip. [/FONT]

  Well said.  I think you just nailed it.  It's a form of blackmail imposed on the public to compensate for their employers cheapness.  Are you suggesting that tipping is a form of corruption?

  If you want your passport processed faster, don't you have to pay an extra "administrative fee?"  Would you care to join the month(s) long wait for an MRI in Canada or would you rather just pay for it the same day across the border?  Call it what you want, but we all "tip" everyday whenever we want something done better.

  Since a tip is usually given AFTER the service.......how does the person know how much service to dole out?

  The bottom line is that if you want a perceptible difference in quality, you're going to have to pay for it.  It's as simple as that.



I tip at least 20% and even more wherever I'm a regular.

  So do we......but I always feel resentful knowing that whatever I tip is EXPECTED....not a gratuity.  It's only appreciated if it's an exceptional amount.

   
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Queer Eye on Feb 19 07 10:17
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[A href="http://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=e1d24836a558ba3707e647ab45b47a7a&PHPSESSID=a8d54cd7fbdf53591ca989c118d82d3b&action=profile;u=8"][FONT color=#000000]View Profile[/FONT][/A] [/DIV][/TD] [TD vAlign=top width="85%" height="100%"] [TABLE width="100%" border=0] [TBODY] [TR] [TD vAlign=center align=left][A href="http://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=e1d24836a558ba3707e647ab45b47a7a&PHPSESSID=a8d54cd7fbdf53591ca989c118d82d3b&topic=4125.msg59844#msg59844"][img alt="" src="http://discoverseattle.net/forums/Themes/default/images/post/xx.gif" border=0][/A][/TD] [TD vAlign=center align=left][A href="http://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=e1d24836a558ba3707e647ab45b47a7a&PHPSESSID=a8d54cd7fbdf53591ca989c118d82d3b&topic=4125.msg59844#msg59844"][FONT color=#565656]Re: Do you believe in tipping?[/FONT][/A]   [DIV class=smalltext]« Reply #34 on: Feb 19 07 »[/DIV][/TD] [TD style="FONT-SIZE: smaller" vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right height=20][A onclick="if (!currentSwap) doQuote(59844); else window.location.XXXX = this.href; return false;" href="http://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=e1d24836a558ba3707e647ab45b47a7a&PHPSESSID=a8d54cd7fbdf53591ca989c118d82d3b&action=post;quote=59844;topic=4125.30;num_replies=34;sesc=ab1b12b1b417c05fdae0d7239db48df6"][FONT color=#000000]Reply with quote[/FONT][/A] [/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE] [HR class=hrcolor width="100%" SIZE=1]    [DIV style="OVERFLOW: auto; WIDTH: 100%"]  Wouldn't you consider sales commission a tip of some sorts?

  No....I consider that the cost of doing business.

  [FONT color=#00bfbf]Don't you think employees will be more productive if you put them on commission?  Aren't you thinking like a Communist?[/FONT]

  I don't think anyone at the Bay has ever gone out of their way to help me, but at finer establishments, they trip over themselves to help you out, don't they?  I don't tip the bank teller or cashier because there is no difference in the quality of the service between employees.

  True....but do you tip differently if you've gotten good service as opposed to exceptional service....mediocre service...bordering on poor service?  Does the 'difference in the quality of the service between waitresses' make a difference in whether you will leave a tip.   Not likely, because it is expected that we do otherwise.  I think a standard percentage is the norm.....regardless.

  [FONT color=#00bfbf]I think people definitely tip accordingly if they received exceptional service vs mediocre service etc.  Every restaurant has that one waitress that consistently gets the most tips for a reason.  Don't you think she's helping the employer by helping herself (as well as the customer)?  It's a win-win-win vs a lose-lose-lose situation.[/FONT]

[FONT color=#00bfbf][/FONT]

[FONT color=#00bfbf]You could theoretically buy a TV from Costco but most people would rather pay a bit more at an electronics store where the staff are more knowledgeable about the product.  You're paying more for the service, not so much the TV itself.  Toilet paper, on the other hand, is something virtually anyone would buy at Costco.[/FONT]

[FONT color=#00bfbf][/FONT]

[FONT color=#00bfbf]Nobody tips a bus driver because the routes and times are the same regardless of who's driving.  A cab driver, on the other hand, can take shortcuts, drive faster, make pleasant conversation etc.  If you're from out of town, he could recommend restaurants, the most popular nite club on Friday nights etc.[/FONT]

   The only way they could improve it is if they have hot chicks pretending to flirt with you - like a restaurant!  In addition, at restaurants you can get seated better, free samples, send back food, faster service etc.  How would tipping someone at McDonald's improve your experience?  The speed and quality of the food are the same, you carry your own food and dispose of the tray yourself.  How can you "stiff" a McDonald's employee?

  How could I get seated better, faster service, better service, more pleasant service etc. if they don't even KNOW at this point if they are going to get tipped 10 bucks or 100 bucks ???  This is the part that mystifies me.

  [FONT color=#00bfbf]I see your point but this can be answered by whether or not they recognize you (i.e. either you're a celebrity or a regular).[/FONT]

    If the tip is already included in the check, what incentive does the server have to go out of their way?  

  A pay cheque ?  Being gainfully employed ?

  [FONT color=#00bfbf]I'm sure you've heard all of the jokes about those who work for the government.[/FONT]

   Since you mentioned other countries, there is rampant corruption in many places where nothing gets done without [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffbf"]a bribe, which is basically the same thing as a tip. [/FONT]

  Well said.  I think you just nailed it.  It's a form of blackmail imposed on the public to compensate for their employers cheapness.

  [FONT color=#00bfbf]I don't see the "blackmail."  Who is forcing you to go to a restaurant to pay $2 for a glass of Diet Coke when you can just by a 2 Liter bottle for $1 at the supermarket?  The service is part of what you're paying for.  The employers are there to take your money, as you know.  Whether you leave a tip or just pay more for the food, you're going to lose your money one way or another.  It's more beneficial when there's an incentive, as you also know already.[/FONT]

  If you want your passport processed faster, don't you have to pay an extra "administrative fee?"  Would you care to join the month(s) long wait for an MRI in Canada or would you rather just pay for it the same day across the border?  Call it what you want, but we all "tip" everyday whenever we want something done better.

  Since a tip is usually given AFTER the service.......how does the person know how much service to dole out?

  [FONT color=#00bfbf]You're thinking way too deep.  Everyone knows you tip at least 15%, right?    [/FONT]

  The bottom line is that if you want a perceptible difference in quality, you're going to have to pay for it.  It's as simple as that.



I tip at least 20% and even more wherever I'm a regular.

  So do we......but I always feel resentful knowing that whatever I tip is EXPECTED....not a gratuity.  It's only appreciated if it's an exceptional amount.

  [FONT color=#00bfbf]This may go back to your job where you said you serve the public and yet you don't get a tip (in fairness, nor did you request one).  I'm guessing the reason for that is, again, there's not much of a difference whether you, Sally, or Joe is serving the customer.  If there was a noticeable difference, you'd be on commission like car salesman or even people in the finance industry, where in a good year, their bonus often trumps their salary - sometimes even several times fold.[/FONT][/DIV][/TD][/TR] [TR] [TD class=smalltext vAlign=bottom width="85%"] [TABLE style="TABLE-LAYOUT: fixed" width="100%" border=0] [TBODY] [TR] [TD class=smalltext align=left width="100%" colSpan=2] Wouldn't you consider sales commission a tip of some sorts?

  No....I consider that the cost of doing business.

   [/TD][/TR] [TR] [TD class=smalltext vAlign=bottom align=left][/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE][/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]  
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: P.C. on Feb 19 07 10:40
Believe it or not QE.....I actually agree with all your points.....and like I said....I have always tipped, and as long as it is customary....I always will.

  It's just that I've yet to hear a valid explantation as to why this industry is exclusive to such rigorous support of tipping regardless of how bad the service is.

  I have a friend who goes to the hairdressers religiously every 6 weeks.  She tips outrageously (because she too believes in all your points) and yet she comes home in tears at least 4 times out of 5.  She then goes to another hairdresser, where she pays for the service all over again....TIPS AGAIN and is STILL often unhappy.

     [FONT color=#00bfbf]This may go back to your job where you said you serve the public and yet you don't get a tip (in fairness, nor did you request one).  I'm guessing the reason for that is, again, there's not much of a difference whether you, Sally, or Joe is serving the customer.  If there was a noticeable difference, you'd be on commission like car salesman or even people in the finance industry, where in a good year, their bonus often trumps their salary - sometimes even several times fold.[/FONT]

[FONT color=#00bfbf][/FONT]

There is more often than not, not much of a difference whether Sally, Joe, Zoey or Jack serves me my food or drinks either.....but I'm still expected to tip.

  So in the restaurant end of the business where I work, I had a friend who waitressed there.  She used to take home more a month in tips than I made in wages.  (My wage was greater than hers).  I'd deal with 4 or 5  times more people in a day than she would.  Where's the logic in this.

[FONT color=#00bfbf][/FONT]

  I know I don't hold a popular opinion on the subject.....and yet it never ceases to amaze me how many people I know, who will defend the practise...... complain of their crappy experience and yet continue to defend it.  I've enjoyed your point of view though.

     
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Queer Eye on Feb 19 07 11:22
 [TABLE style="TABLE-LAYOUT: fixed" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width="100%"] [TBODY] [TR] [TD style="OVERFLOW: hidden" vAlign=top width="16%" rowSpan=2][A title="View the profile of P.C." href="http://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=e1d24836a558ba3707e647ab45b47a7a&PHPSESSID=529bf72d99107f82f095a47ce2d2f504&action=profile;u=8"][FONT color=#000000]P.C.[/FONT][/A]   [DIV class=smalltext]Administrator
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[A href="http://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=e1d24836a558ba3707e647ab45b47a7a&PHPSESSID=529bf72d99107f82f095a47ce2d2f504&action=profile;u=8"][FONT color=#000000]View Profile[/FONT][/A] [/DIV][/TD] [TD vAlign=top width="85%" height="100%"] [TABLE width="100%" border=0] [TBODY] [TR] [TD vAlign=center align=left][A href="http://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=e1d24836a558ba3707e647ab45b47a7a&PHPSESSID=529bf72d99107f82f095a47ce2d2f504&topic=4125.msg59848#msg59848"](http://[/A][/TD] [TD vAlign=center align=left][B][A href="http://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=e1d24836a558ba3707e647ab45b47a7a&PHPSESSID=529bf72d99107f82f095a47ce2d2f504&topic=4125.msg59848#msg59848"][FONT color=#565656]Re: Do you believe in tipping?[/FONT][/A][/B]   [DIV class=smalltext]« [B]Reply #36 on:[/B] Feb 19 07 »[/DIV][/TD] [TD style="FONT-SIZE: smaller" vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right height=20][A onclick="if (!currentSwap) doQuote(59848); else window.location.XXXX = this.href; return false;" href="http://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=e1d24836a558ba3707e647ab45b47a7a&PHPSESSID=529bf72d99107f82f095a47ce2d2f504&action=post;quote=59848;topic=4125.30;num_replies=36;sesc=0441e9657600f7eb446f208fba66a7e7"][FONT color=#000000]Reply with quote[/FONT][/A] [/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE] [HR class=hrcolor width="100%" SIZE=1]   [DIV style="OVERFLOW: auto; WIDTH: 100%"] Believe it or not QE.....I actually agree with all your points.....and like I said....I have always tipped, and as long as it is customary....I always will.   [P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][FONT color=#ff7f00]It has been said that life is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel.  [/FONT] [P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"] It's just that I've yet to hear a valid explantation as to why this industry is exclusive to such rigorous support of tipping regardless of how bad the service is.  [FONT color=#ff7f00]You're absolutely correct that people shouldn't expect a tip for poor service, but to be honest with you, I can't remember the last time I received poor service when a tip was involved.  If tipping was so appalling, I think it would've been fazed out a long time ago.[SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"]  [/SPAN]Maybe I don’t see tipping as extra.[SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"]  [/SPAN]I think the menu price is undervalued and it’s up to me to bring it up depending on the service.[?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /][o:p][/o:p][/FONT]  [P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"] [o:p][/o:p] [P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"]I have a friend who goes to the hairdressers religiously every 6 weeks.  She tips outrageously (because she too believes in all your points) and yet she comes home in tears at least 4 times out of 5.  She then goes to another hairdresser, where she pays for the service all over again....TIPS AGAIN and is STILL often unhappy.   [FONT color=#ff7f00]Instead of asking for what she wants, she should ask for what she needs.  I'm guessing she asks for a certain style but doesn't know what suits her.  Have you ever noticed those makeover talk shows where the stylists do whatever they want and the guests usually end up happy?  The stylists NEVER ask the guests what they want![/FONT][FONT color=#00bfbf][/FONT] [FONT color=#00bfbf]This may go back to your job where you said you serve the public and yet you don't get a tip (in fairness, nor did you request one).  I'm guessing the reason for that is, again, there's not much of a difference whether you, Sally, or Joe is serving the customer.  If there was a noticeable difference, you'd be on commission like car salesman or even people in the finance industry, where in a good year, their bonus often trumps their salary - sometimes even several times fold.[/FONT][FONT color=#00bfbf][/FONT] There is more often than not, not much of a difference whether Sally, Joe, Zoey or Jack serves me my food or drinks either.....but I'm still expected to tip.  So in the restaurant end of the business where I work, I had a friend who waitressed there.  She used to take home more a month in tips than I made in wages.  (My wage was greater than hers).  I'd deal with 4 or 5  times more people in a day than she would.  Where's the logic in this.[FONT color=#00bfbf][/FONT] [FONT color=#ff7f00]Since you're a guy, naturally you won't make as much as your waitress friend![SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"]  [/SPAN]Some women can marry based on their looks – but they’ll have to earn their “tip” one way or another. [img]http://discoverseattle.net/forums/richedit/smileys/7.gif) (note:  these emoticons are too big!).  The logic is that you’re much easier to replace than she is and she probably attracts (pardon the pun) more repeat business than you do.[SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"]  [/SPAN]But good looks don’t last forever, so her shelf life is much shorter than yours (should you both be inclined to keep working in that restaurant until you’re let go).[/FONT]

  I know I don't hold a popular opinion on the subject.....and yet it never ceases to amaze me how many people I know, who will defend the practise...... complain of their crappy experience and yet continue to defend it.  I've enjoyed your point of view though.

  [FONT color=#ff7f00]Likewise!  Thanks for you two cents (again, pardon the pun)![/FONT][/DIV][/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]  
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: P.C. on Feb 20 07 06:25
One wee note.  I don't work in the restaurant....I work in another area of the business......and Ummmmm....QE....I'm not a guy. [img style="CURSOR: pointer" onclick=url(this.src); src="http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/more/bigs/c018.gif" border=0]
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: TehBorken on Feb 20 07 06:42
 I have mixed feelings on tipping. I understand that may waiters and waitresses "make it or break it" on the money they get from tips, but on the other hand I've always wondered why someone should be tipped just for doing their job. I don't get tipped for what I do, nor do many oher people. You don't tip your doctor or plumber or mechanic, do you?

It just seems odd to me that you should be expected to tip someone for what they're already being paid to do. The implication is that if I don't tip (read: bribe) them, then I won't get good service. What is that supposed to teach me about the places where I spend my money, like restaurants? That they'll give me substandard service unless I pay them more? Would you accept this sort of thing from your doctor or attorney or grocery clerk?
 
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: ripper on Feb 20 07 07:28
The purpose of tipping is two fold. One is to supplement the waiter/ress income who make less than minimum wage. The other is of course a out and out bribe to ensure good service.
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: TehBorken on Feb 20 07 07:33
 ripper wrote:
The purpose of tipping is two fold. One is to supplement the waiter/ress income who make less than minimum wage. The other is of course a out and out bribe to ensure good service.

1) Why am I  responsible to ensure that they make enough money? Isn't that really something they're responsible for? What if I'm not making enough money, are you supposed to give me money to make sure I have enough? Why shouldn't I just raise the price of the service I offer to make sure I earn what I need?

2) Why should I pay more than the listed price to "ensure good service"?? What does that say about the business I'm already choosing to spend my money at?

 
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: P.C. on Feb 20 07 07:49
ripper, I don't think there is anyone out there making less than minimum wages.  It's illegal.  If they ARE making less than minimum wage, they have several options.  First....don't take the job....look elsewhere.  Take it up with the employer, and if all else fails, go to Labour Relations.  

  edit: But to look to the public to pick up the slack for their employers refusal to pay their worth is flat out wrong.              
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: ripper on Feb 20 07 07:50
I really can't answer your question. We have a pretty messed up system here. By that i mean some services get tipped while others don't. We tip taxi drivers, hair stylist, the valet, and yet we don't tip people who work in the fast food industry who work a million times harder. Go figure.  
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: ripper on Feb 20 07 08:07
P.C. wrote:
 ripper, I don't think there is anyone out there making less than minimum wages.  It's illegal.  If they ARE making less than minimum wage, they have several options.  First....don't take the job....look elsewhere.  Take it up with the employer, and if all else fails, go to Labour Relations.  

  edit: But to look to the public to pick up the slack for their employers refusal to pay their worth is flat out wrong.

P.C. i was told by a friend who works in the industry that they make less then minimum wage. Who knows, maybe he was pulling my leg so i'll give him bigger tips. Grrrrr. As far as the restaurants go, they have a pretty high overhead. If they were to pay their staff  union rates, who could afford to eat out but a select few. By keeping the prices reasonable, they allow us to basically tell the wait staff what their service is really worth.            
 
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: TehBorken on Feb 20 07 08:18
 ripper wrote:
As far as the restaurants go, they have a pretty high overhead.

That's really their problem, isn't it? Why should you or I make up for this shortfall or unrealistic pricing scheme?


If they were to pay their staff  union rates, who could afford to eat out but a select few.

Again, why should this be our problem? Eating out isn't a right. If you can afford to do so, great. But none of us have any responsibility to cover what is, in effect, fraudulent pricing by the resturaunt owners, do we?


By keeping the prices reasonable, they allow us to basically tell the wait staff what their service is really worth.
Their service is worth what they pay the wait staff, not what we pay them. And why should they care, really? If they'll deliver reasonable service at a reasonable price, I'm happy. Why should I pay them more just to get fair or reasonable treatment?
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: TehBorken on Feb 20 07 08:20
    P.C. wrote:
[div style="font-style: italic;"]edit: But to look to the public to pick up the slack for their employers refusal to pay their worth is flat out wrong.[/div]  
 BINGO. My thoughts exactly. If they cannot make it on what they're paid, they need to seek another line of work, improve their education, picket for higher wages, etc etc. But it's not incumbent on me to ensure they make enough money to support themselves any more than it's their responsibilty to make sure I make enough money. They don't tip me for building a website that they use for free, do they?


 
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: TehBorken on Feb 20 07 08:34
I've decided that I just don't make enough money, so from now on I want all to you to tip me. This is only fair, and I'm sure you'll agree that I deserve it for providing such exemplary service. Send me 15% of whatever is in your wallet right now to:

TehBorken Tip Fund
c/o DiscoverSeattle.net
Seattle WA 98028


Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: P.C. on Feb 20 07 08:43
OK TB.....that sounds reasonable.....and if everyone else is going to do it....then I am too.  [img style="CURSOR: pointer" onclick=url(this.src); src="http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/more/bigs/c028.gif" border=0]

    Tipping started back in a time when servers were not paid wages.  This is no longer the case.  The reasons for tipping changed over the years, but conforming to social norms and avoiding embarrassment are generally the main reasons.

   According to the Internal Revenue Service, Americans paid out $14 billion in tips last year, and that is almost certainly a severe undercount.  That's billions....with a B.  Holy moly!
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: ripper on Feb 20 07 08:58


 Holy moly is right. That's alot of  money. I'll now have to rethink how much to tip. They probably make more money than me.
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: CK on Feb 20 07 09:13
Tipping? Not always.

One time at what I thought was a decent restaurant near Sunnyvale, California, I had the shittiest service EVER! Snooty, pathetic waiter scowled at us just asking for water. Food was averege, slow, rude...the list goes on.

Whatever, no tip sounds right. We pay for the meals, walk out to the parking lot. The waiter comes running out "Sir! Sir! You forgot the tip Sir!"

My Tip was "get away from us, before I smash your teeth in!".

He went back inside.  
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: P.C. on Feb 20 07 09:14
I've heard of people who have pulled in as much as $600.00 in tips on a good night.  Of course that's not going to happen at your local IHOP.

  The restaurant attached to the business where I work has the waitresses taking home in tips almost as much in an hour as I make in a day.....and my base wage is higher than theirs.  
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: P.C. on Feb 20 07 09:17
Here's another classic.  I almost go into convulsions when I hear this    ".....and would you like your change?"
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Lise on Feb 20 07 09:54
P.C. wrote:
Here's another classic.  I almost go into convulsions when I hear this    ".....and would you like your change?"  

 I hear ya, PC. I always get a tad annoyed at that. Let me be the judge to see whether or not I should leave you a tip from my change.

 Oh here's another one that's annoying. Fast food cashiers who have their tip jars in front of you. Why should I give you tips for paying for my food at a fast food joint? It's ridiculous to have a tip jar there.

 On the Princess cruise lines, tipping is MANDATORY. I couldn't believe it. You're asked to tip $US10 per day regardless of service. Isn't that incredible? I agree that the service was good but to demand payment from your customers after you've paid for everything..... seems so wrong. The only way to dispute this is to head to their service desk early in the morning of your departure to settle your account or else it's automatically deducted from your credit card.

 I don't mind paying the people who work hard to go their way to service me on the cruise ship but I'm against this policy and the really sh***y wages they're being paid.


 
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Queer Eye on Feb 20 07 11:05
 [TABLE style="TABLE-LAYOUT: fixed" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width="100%"] [TBODY] [TR] [TD style="OVERFLOW: hidden" vAlign=top width="16%" rowSpan=2][A title="View the profile of P.C." href="http://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=e1d24836a558ba3707e647ab45b47a7a&PHPSESSID=05e5db796b9808b475e8a129b1cba652&action=profile;u=8"][FONT color=#000000]P.C.[/FONT][/A]   [DIV class=smalltext]Administrator
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[A href="http://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=e1d24836a558ba3707e647ab45b47a7a&PHPSESSID=05e5db796b9808b475e8a129b1cba652&action=profile;u=8"][FONT color=#000000]View Profile[/FONT][/A] [/DIV][/TD] [TD vAlign=top width="85%" height="100%"] [TABLE width="100%" border=0] [TBODY] [TR] [TD vAlign=center align=left][A href="http://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=e1d24836a558ba3707e647ab45b47a7a&PHPSESSID=05e5db796b9808b475e8a129b1cba652&topic=4125.msg59861#msg59861"](http://[/A][/TD] [TD vAlign=center align=left][B][A href="http://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=e1d24836a558ba3707e647ab45b47a7a&PHPSESSID=05e5db796b9808b475e8a129b1cba652&topic=4125.msg59861#msg59861"][FONT color=#000000]Re: Do you believe in tipping?[/FONT][/A][/B]   [DIV class=smalltext]« [B]Reply #38 on:[/B] Feb 20 07 »[/DIV][/TD] [TD style="FONT-SIZE: smaller" vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right height=20][A onclick="if (!currentSwap) doQuote(59861); else window.location.XXXX = this.href; return false;" href="http://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=e1d24836a558ba3707e647ab45b47a7a&PHPSESSID=05e5db796b9808b475e8a129b1cba652&action=post;quote=59861;topic=4125.30;num_replies=53;sesc=be0e00314e271864dff14d60d0b731f3"][FONT color=#000000]Reply with quote[/FONT][/A] [/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE] [HR class=hrcolor width="100%" SIZE=1]    [DIV style="OVERFLOW: auto; WIDTH: 100%"] One wee note.  I don't work in the restaurant....I work in another area of the business......and Ummmmm....QE....I'm not a guy. [img]http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/more/bigs/c018.gif" border=0 ="url(this.src);"][/DIV]  [FONT color=#ff7f00]Oh, my!  I had no idea that you were female!  I would've been more civil towards you (not really...well, maybe...whatever).  [img]http://discoverseattle.net/forums/richedit/smileys/12.gif) [/FONT]

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[FONT color=#ff7f00]In a way you do.  If you go to 3 different plumbers or mechanics, you'll get 3 different estimates for the exact same job.  Why?  If you feel that the 2 more expensive ones are not providing you better service than the cheapest guy but ripping you off, then how long would the more expensive 2 stay in business?[/FONT]

 [FONT color=#ff7f00]There isn't much difference in the quality of service that a family or ER doctor provides since they more or less are interchangeable with their colleagues.  How hard is it to take a pulse, blood pressure, measure height/weight etc?  An ER doc's job is harder, but each ER doc will approach each patient more or less the same.  Plastic surgery definitely depends on the skill of the surgeon, and there's a huge variation in their work, hence the large variation in price.[/FONT]

 If they cannot make it on what they're paid, they need to seek another line of work, improve their education, picket for higher wages, etc etc. But it's not incumbent on me to ensure they make enough money to support themselves any more than it's their responsibilty to make sure I make enough money. They don't tip me for building a website that they use for free, do they?

 [FONT color=#ff7f00]Again, if employers paid them more, the price of your food will increase so how are you ahead?  It's kind of like paying a kid for shoveling the driveway.  Don't you think he'd do a better job if you paid him $10 up front and more later depending on how good of a job he did, or would he do a better job if you just gave him $12 up front?[/FONT]

 [FONT color=#ff7f00]Do all webmasters charge exactly the same price?  Why not?  How is this different than a tip?[/FONT]

 [FONT color=#ff7f00][/FONT]

 

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[A href="http://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=e1d24836a558ba3707e647ab45b47a7a&action=profile;u=8"][FONT color=#000000]View Profile[/FONT][/A] [/DIV][/TD] [TD vAlign=top width="85%" height="100%"] [TABLE width="100%" border=0] [TBODY] [TR] [TD vAlign=center align=left][A href="http://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=e1d24836a558ba3707e647ab45b47a7a&/topic,4125.msg59895.html#msg59895"][img alt="" src="http://discoverseattle.net/forums/Themes/default/images/post/xx.gif[/img][/A][/TD] [TD vAlign=center align=left][A href="http://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=e1d24836a558ba3707e647ab45b47a7a&/topic,4125.msg59895.html#msg59895"][FONT color=#000000]Re: Do you believe in tipping?[/FONT][/A]   [DIV class=smalltext]« Reply #51 on: Feb 20 07 »[/DIV][/TD] [TD style="FONT-SIZE: smaller" vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right height=20][A onclick="if (!currentSwap) doQuote(59895); else window.location.XXXX = this.href; return false;" href="http://discoverseattle.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=e1d24836a558ba3707e647ab45b47a7a&action=post;quote=59895;topic=4125.45;num_replies=53;sesc=8550537496ca4c57cd675142458622d1"][FONT color=#000000]Reply with quote[/FONT][/A] [/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE] [HR class=hrcolor width="100%" SIZE=1]    [DIV style="OVERFLOW: auto; WIDTH: 100%"] I've heard of people who have pulled in as much as $600.00 in tips on a good night.  Of course that's not going to happen at your local IHOP.

  The restaurant attached to the business where I work has the waitresses taking home in tips almost as much in an hour as I make in a day.....and my base wage is higher than theirs.

[FONT color=#ff7f00]Is it really that easy to collect $600 in tips?  If it is, wouldn't everyone be doing it?  Aren't the waitresses better looking and provide better service than IHOP?  Even if you believe the service is not that different, you'll agree that it's much harder to get a job as a waitress at a fancy restaurant than the local IHOP, so they should be rewarded on that level.[/FONT]

 [FONT color=#ff7f00]People also complain about about sports stars making millions versus minor leaguers.  Who's stopping the minor leaguers from making the big league team?  Nobody![/FONT]

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Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Gopher on Feb 20 07 11:56
[A href="http://www.people.howstuffworks.com/tipping.htm"]http://www.people.howstuffworks.com/tipping.htm[/A]
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: TehBorken on Feb 20 07 01:04
   > You don't tip your doctor or plumber or mechanic, do you?  

In a way you do.  If you go to 3 different plumbers or mechanics, you'll get 3 different estimates for the exact same job.  Why?

Simple- because they charge different amounts. Not because one gets a tip and the others don't. And I would choose them based on my perception of them and their skills, generally not just because of what their hourly rates are.


If you feel that the 2 more expensive ones are not providing you better service than the cheapest guy but ripping you off, then how long would the more expensive 2 stay in business?

I'm sorry, I just don't see the connection between this and tipping. The plumbers specify their price upfront, letting you know in advance what they charge. There's no discretionary amount that you may or may not add to the bill based on your perception of their service. They bill you X number of dollars, and that's what you pay, period.



There isn't much difference in the quality of service that a family or ER doctor provides since they more or less are interchangeable with their colleagues.

There's a huge difference. The price is set. Your doctor or nurse doesn't bill you for $100 and then expect you pay them something additional for "good service". Sorry, but you're tanking on this one, QE.


How hard is it to take a pulse, blood pressure, measure height/weight etc?  An ER doc's job is harder, but each ER doc will approach each patient more or less the same.  Plastic surgery definitely depends on the skill of the surgeon, and there's a huge variation in their work, hence the large variation in price.

Again, however, the price is set. They don't bill you for some amount and then expect you pay them something additional for "good service".



Again, if employers paid them more, the price of your food will increase so how are you ahead?  

It's not a matter of being "ahead". It's a matter of paying to get the same basic service I should have gotten for the price of the original bill.


It's kind of like paying a kid for shoveling the driveway.  Don't you think he'd do a better job if you paid him $10 up front and more later depending on how good of a job he did, or would he do a better job if you just gave him $12 up front?

I don't think it would matter much, to be frank. If we agreed on a set service for a set price, that's what we should both agree to deliver.


Do all webmasters charge exactly the same price?  Why not?  How is this different than a tip?

No, they don't. The difference is (presumably) based on the level of skill (like a surgeon) and the services required, NOT on whether or not how happy you are afterwards. Would you go to a surgeon who expected a tip to do a good job? I sure wouldn't.

Sorry, you've failed to convince me at all. Not even a little bit. In fact, you seemed to have reinforced my position by pointing out the flaws in the logic of "tipping".

Basically tipping says "I won't do a good job unless you pay me more than what the original bill is, or what you were told this service would cost you." That seems...like extortion, frankly.
   
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: TehBorken on Feb 20 07 01:09
 [p style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: italic;"]Is it really that easy to collect $600 in tips?
[/p][p style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"]No, not normally.
 [/p]
[p style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: italic;"] If it is, wouldn't everyone be doing it?
[/p][p style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"]No, not everyone wants to work in the food services industry. I certainly don't. Do you?
 [/p] [p style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"]
 [/p] [p style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: italic;"] Aren't the waitresses better looking and provide better service than IHOP?  Even if you believe the service is not that different, you'll agree that it's much harder to get a job as a waitress at a fancy restaurant than the local IHOP, so they should be rewarded on that level.[/p][p style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"]Why shouldn't the "reward" come from the employer, since it's their service that's the basis on which they're getting hired, as you stated? Why should the customers "reward" them?
 [/p]
 [p style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: italic;"][/p][p style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: italic;"]People also complain about about sports stars making millions versus minor leaguers.  Who's stopping the minor leaguers from making the big league team?  Nobody![/p]Not true. They'd all love to hit the major leagues but there are only so many slots available. They'd all love to make the big bucks, just like most waiters would prefer to be bank presidents. What's stopping the waiters from becoming bank presidents? Nobody!

 
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Queer Eye on Feb 20 07 02:52
It appears that we'll have to agree to disagree on this subject.  Here's a penny for your thoughts (keep the change). (http://discoverseattle.net/forums/richedit/smileys/Teasing/5.gif)    
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: P.C. on Feb 20 07 04:44
I'll have to weigh in on the agree to disagree front too QE.

  TB....you had some excellent points. (which is easy for me to say, because they reflected my sentiments to a tee)  

  *About the $600 .....it isn't common for sure.....but it's not rare.  And it's definitely not what one could expect at IHOP or Smittys.
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: TehBorken on Feb 20 07 06:10
  Queer Eye wrote:
It appears that we'll have to agree to disagree on this subject.  Here's a penny for your thoughts (keep the change). [img style="font-style: italic;" src="http://discoverseattle.net/forums/richedit/smileys/Teasing/5.gif[/img]

If that's in Canadian money, I doubt there'll be any change. (http:///forums/richedit/smileys/Happy/14.gif)

 
 
 
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Trollio on Feb 21 07 12:06
 I [span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"]detest[/span] tipping.

But I always do it in restaurants and usually 18-20%. It definitely improves the whole experience, because as wait staff remember the stiffers, they also remember the good tippers.

But tipping is extortion, plain and simple, and the economic arguments about the prices being raised are really disingenuous. Things cost what they cost, and businesses will do what they need to do in order to keep up with the pace of the market. Case in point: a few years ago, no one ever got free refills of soft drinks anywhere. Now most places offer that, because if they don't people will just go somewhere that does give them that feature. Restaurants are always raising their prices to meet inflation anyway. I'd rather pay more for the meal upfront than play some third world haggling game over an extra few dollars.

Most of the industrialized world does not practise tipping. Europeans, however, have learned that Americans do this, so they expect it from North Americans. I never tip in Europe, but I'm European so they also don't expect it from me.

I sure as hell do not tip anyone at buffets (I could care less if they remember me -- they do nothing for me, and they're going to have to clean that table no matter what I do), and I do not extend my tipping to every bloody thing the way businesses are trying to do in the States for every damned thing. (NO you are NOT a bloody "barista"; you pour coffee. Get over yourself.)

Things should cost what they cost, those costs should be clearly understood at the start and remain that way at the end. Aside from restaurants, I find nothing "pleasant" in someone trying to f*ck me out of more money with a smile on their face, and I will actually go out of my way to not give such people any business ever again.

And Lise, on cruise ships I actually prefer the explicit gratuity; it dispenses with the whole false politeness in exchange for money/service, and makes it very clear that the steward is there to do what I ask when I ask within reason, and not out of the kindness of their hearts.
 
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: P.C. on Feb 21 07 06:29
To me, a dictated tip is even worse.  I should be the only one to decide if and how much I will tip.  It's nobody elses call.  It isn't a tip or gratuity if it's mandatory.  And they can call it what they want, it's a demand to participate in paying their wages.  

  *So that's $10 dollars a day X how many people on a cruise ship?
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: TehBorken on Feb 21 07 08:32
 P.C. wrote:
To me, a [strong style="font-style: italic;"]dictated[/b] tip is even worse.

Yup. That's not a tip, that's a surcharge or a fee. To call it a dictated fee a "tip" is ridiculous at best.


Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Lise on Feb 21 07 09:19
Exactly. I don't mind tipping on a cruise ship but I hate the 'mandatory' part. It's the whole principle thing. Let me, the customer, decide if I should tip you and how much, not the other way around.
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Lil Me on Feb 21 07 09:47
I'm not very good at tipping the chambermaid in hotels.  Honestly, I usually forget.  
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: ripper on Feb 21 07 11:34
I tend to allows tip the chambermaids.I love going to Vegas. Yeah baby.  I always put a $100. bill in the envelope as soon as i enter my room. That way even if i go broke, i don't feel bad about stiffing someone.  
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: purelife on Feb 21 07 11:37
ripper wrote:
I tend to allows tip the chambermaids.I love going to Vegas. Yeah baby.  I[FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff40"] always put a $100. [/FONT]bill in the envelope as soon as i enter my room. That way even if i go broke, i don't feel bad about stiffing someone.[/b]

 
 
Wow, I'm in the wrong profession!
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: ripper on Feb 21 07 11:48
Purelife,anybody who has to pick up after slob like me deserves a good tip
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Lil Me on Feb 21 07 12:24
Can you imagine the things you need to clean up in a hotel room?  Yuck.  Spilled food, drinks and ashtrays are the least of your concerns!
 
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Russ on Feb 21 07 01:21
I hate and dont go to places that demand a tip in the bill. Its basically negating the whole idea of the 'tip' idea. If a server does really good, minimum 15%. if a server does normal, minimum 10%.

If the server does shitty, I look to see why.. and Ill tip from 0-5%.

  The crappiest service I ever had and the arogance of her was astounding at this one restaurant. So I paid the bill, made a show of waiting for the change she obviously didnt think I should get back, 'are you seriously waiting for the change???' Which didnt make me any happier.. I was actually going to leave 10% because the place was busy, after that comment.. uh no. So I left a whopping tip of a penny, and made a point of giving it to her in front of the other servers by the till. She made a shrill comment saying how I was a cheapskate that shouldnt be going out for dinner if I couldnt afford to leave her a tip. With people having turned about at that point and watching/ listening, I mentioned that a tip is for a good job, basically doing her job. Me having to ask wheres my drink halfways through the meal, and ask for cutlery, napkins etc. On top of you 'forgetting' to put in my order, doesnt help things, especially when after seeing everyone around me with their meals and me asking getting told, so what. I then mentioned if she felt she deserved a tip all the time.. she should be in a different line of work.    
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Lil Me on Feb 21 07 03:01
I'm ok with a "Service Charge" on the bill for parties of 10 or more.  It's probably better for the customers, too.  I've been to group dinners where people "forget" to leave a tip and leave, and the last ones sitting there end up forking out $$ to cover the rest.
 
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: P.C. on Feb 21 07 03:31
I think that I don't care where they hide the fees, gratutities, service charges, extra this, extra that.....whatever they want to call it....(under the guise of paying their employees because they don't want to)......but when I go to a restaurant, the expectation is that I'm going to be served.  That's the concept behind dining out.  If an employer can't afford to staff his establishment with people who are going to deliver appropriate service without my help, then why is he, or should he be, in business.

  Somebody needs to do the numbers before they decide if they can afford to run a business, and if there isn't enough profit to pay your employers what they're worth, then you need to rework the numbers.

  If an establishment wants to offer the service of catering to large groups, they should recognize the extra work involved for their employees, and pay them for it.

  When you apply the same principle of 'tipping' to your own job, you'll see how odd the concept is.

  Bottom line, as long as it is the custom to do so, I guess that's what we will continue to do.      
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: ripper on Feb 21 07 08:30
Why would anyone want to pay the wait staff "what their worth." That is the common complaint here about tipping. By paying them say $20 an hour flat fee with no tip, what motivation is there for them. It's bad for the restaurant and bad for the customer. It's bad for the customer because there's no more motivation for them to go out of their way for you. They've basically become government employees. Lazy with surly attitudes. It's bad for the restaurant because the service is so shitty you vow to never go back.
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: P.C. on Feb 21 07 08:56
 Why would anyone want to pay the wait staff "what their worth." That is the common complaint here about tipping. By paying them say $20 an hour flat fee with no tip, what motivation is there for them. It's bad for the restaurant and bad for the customer. It's bad for the customer because there's no more motivation for them to go out of their way for you. They've basically become government employees. Lazy with surly attitudes. It's bad for the restaurant because the service is so shitty you vow to never go back.

  By paying them $20 dollars an hour flat fee with no tip.....what motivation is there for them????  Are you serious???  I'd have to say the motivation would be getting $20 an hour for a  job that required $0 special training?  The motivation is having a job....or being unemployed.  I'm sorry.....I know it's not an easy job but......jeez....it's not rocket science.  A vet goes to school for 8 years to start out at a wage that's far less than THAT.  Professions that require years of training and tens of thousands of dollars in schooling make far less than that.  We need some perspective.[/DIV]
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: ripper on Feb 22 07 08:17
P.C. that $20 an hoyr was just hypothetical. It easily be $10 or $15 dollars an hour. The point once they get a flat rate with no possible extra, what is there in it for them to go above and beyond. Yes they still have a job to do. And they will do their job, but just the required minimum to not get fired. Like a refill for your coffee. Sure fifteen minutes later. Everything will slow right down.
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: TehBorken on Feb 22 07 08:24
 ripper wrote:
P.C. that $20 an hoyr was just hypothetical. It easily be $10 or $15 dollars an hour. The point once they get a flat rate with no possible extra, what is there in it for them to go above and beyond.

Then why shouldn't this logic apply to every job?? Your doctor, your attorney, your mechanic....what incentive do they have to "go above and beyond"? Why are waiters and waitesses so different?  What makes them special?


Yes they still have a job to do. And they will do their job, but just the required minimum to not get fired.

Then your doctor should be allowed to act this way, no? And you should be allowed to do the minimum in your job and everyone should be okay with that, right?

 
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: ripper on Feb 22 07 08:31
TehBorben, i've worked in all kind of jobs.From union shops to Offices. The fact is people are lazy and scammers by nature. I've met so many people who do just the required minimum to just not get fired. As for doctors, if they screw up i can sue them. You can't sue a waiter for screwing up.
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: P.C. on Feb 22 07 08:37
Yup, TehBorken.....that's what mysifies me too.  What IS so special about this profession?

  The point once they get a flat rate with no possible extra, what is there in it for them to go above and beyond. Yes they still have a job to do. And they will do their job, but just the required minimum to not get fired. Like a refill for your coffee. Sure fifteen minutes later. Everything will slow right down.

  Sorry for taking your post so literally ripper. [img style="CURSOR: pointer" onclick=url(this.src); src="http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/froehlich/c020.gif" border=0]

  As far as only doing the required minimum as to not get fired, that's the [FONT size=4]easiest [/FONT]problem of all to fix.

Ultimate care of the clientele is simply a feature in the job description.    
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: TehBorken on Feb 22 07 08:43
 ripper wrote:
As for doctors, if they screw up i can sue them.  

Not if they simply do the minimum they need to get by. And that's what we're talking about, not anyone screwing up.

You can't sue a waiter for screwing up.
Actually, you can sue anyone for anything, even a waiter.  But why should you have to pay extra just to get decent service?

Again, should you have to tip your doctor just to get good service from him? Why not? What is it that gives waiters a special right to be "owed" a tip just for doing their job?



 
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: ripper on Feb 22 07 08:44
That's okay P.C. I enjoy a good debate. Keeps the brain sharp. And at my age, i need all the help i can get.  
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: P.C. on Feb 22 07 08:49
When you think about it, it's really an unreliable guage for a restaurant owner.  Tipping does nothing to inform restaurant owner how good their establishment is.  Do they believe for a moment that if there are complaints, that this information is passed on by the very person who may have caused the problem.  

People tip for all kinds of reasons....top of the list is that it's just not socially acceptable NOT to and fear of foreign objects in their meal.  But we all know that a pretty girl (with various assets) is going to make better tips than a less endowed.....I mean plain girl.  What information is a restaurant owner gleaning from this?  Certainly nothing related to the quality or lack of quality of food they're serving.....OR how it's being served.

  It's become so murky with people tipping 'JUST BECAUSE' that it no longer has any meaning.    
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: ripper on Feb 22 07 08:50
Tehborken i never said there was anything special about waiting on tables. But the fact remains that they are lowest of the hourly paid while doctors and lawyers are some of the highest. Maybe it comes from my humble beginnings. I have a soft spot for the underdog. Go Leafs go.I mean most of the the people who wait are either students or single mothers.  
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: P.C. on Feb 22 07 09:03
It may be one of the lowest paid jobs....but certainly not the lowest, (which makes sense as it requires minimal skill and minimal training).  Let's face it, the toughest part of 'waiting' is dealing with nasty clientele.  But that brings us back to the fact that this is only one job of thousands that has to deal with the public.  Again.....I'm not suggesting for a minute that it's easy....that's why they call it WORK and that's why you get paid to do it.

  I deal with the public, (a lot of public) and I can't imagine doing a mediocre job, just because there is no incentive in the form of tips from the public to do a better job.   I do a good job partly for my own personal satisfaction, but largely because I believe it to be a common sense requirement being as someone is giving me money to do so.  (not to mention the good ol Golden Rule)  Is it not the most basic expectation of an employer that their employees treat their clientele with respect and cheerfulness ?  
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: ripper on Feb 22 07 09:10
P.C. wrote:
 It may be one of the lowest paid jobs....but certainly not the lowest, (which makes sense as it requires minimal skill and minimal training).  Let's face it, the toughest part of 'waiting' is dealing with nasty clientele.  But that brings us back to the fact that this is only one job of thousands that has to deal with the public.  Again.....I'm not suggesting for a minute that it's easy....that's why they call it WORK and that's why you get paid to do it.

  I deal with the public, (a lot of public) and I can't imagine doing a mediocre job, just because there is no incentive in the form of tips from the public.   Is it not the most basic expectation of an employer that their employees treat their clientele with respect and cheerfulness ? [/DIV]
 You are absolutely correct. Nothing worst then encountering a rude or incompetent employee. Arrrgh.
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: TehBorken on Feb 22 07 09:36
 ripper wrote:
Tehborken i never said there was anything special about waiting on tables. But the fact remains that they are lowest of the hourly paid while doctors and lawyers are some of the highest.

Yes, but so what? Keep in mind, some of the doctors and lawyers started out waiting tables. But I have to aks- what's your point? That we should subsidize the lower-paid workers ourselves? Why should we do that? Why shouldn't their employer simply pay them a living wage instead of expecting it to come out of our pocket?

Put it this way: Do you tip a shoe salesman? Or a cashier? Or the counter clerk at McDonalds? They're poorly paid too, so why shouldn't we tip them? I mean really, this makes no sense when you look at it. It's just that we've been conditioned to tip waiters and waitresses.


Maybe it comes from my humble beginnings. I have a soft spot for the underdog. Go Leafs go.I mean most of the the people who wait are either students or single mothers.[/div] [div style="font-style: italic;"]
I have no problem with rooting for the underdog, but that's not what we're doing here and framing it that way is deceptive in my opinion. We're talking about having to essentially bribe people to do a decent job, a job that they are being paid to do already.
 


Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: ripper on Feb 22 07 11:56
TehBorken wrote:


Put it this way: Do you tip a shoe salesman? Or a cashier? Or the counter clerk at McDonalds? They're poorly paid too, so why shouldn't we tip them? I mean really, this makes no sense when you look at it. It's just that we've been [SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic"]conditioned[/SPAN] to tip waiters and waitresses.

We don't tip shoe salesman because they are paid hourly and commision. Same for sales people and cashiers at department stores. Ever wonder why some of them are so pushy.As far as fast food goes, it sucks but what do you expect. If we were expected to tip at McDicks, their god awful food would be almost as expensive as normal restaurants. Who'd eat there. They'd go out of business.[BR style="FONT-STYLE: italic"]




   
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: TehBorken on Feb 22 07 12:14
 ripper wrote:
If we were expected to tip at McDicks, their god awful food would be almost as expensive as normal restaurants.

So...why doesn't this logic apply to food servers iin restaurants where the food is awful?  It's not the waiter's fault that the food is bad.





 

 
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: TehBorken on Feb 22 07 12:16
 TehBorken wrote:
 ripper wrote:
We don't tip shoe salesman because they are paid hourly and commision.

Some make commission, some don't. But what about cashiers? They don't make any commision. Why not tip them?


If we were expected to tip at McDicks, their god awful food would be almost as expensive as normal restaurants.

So why doesn't this logic apply to food servers iin restaurants where the food is awful?  It's not the waiter's fault that the food is bad, right?





 

 
 
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: ripper on Feb 22 07 12:21
The fact remains that we live in a society that is mostly tip oriented. Mostly i say because some industries just don't get tipped. i can't figure it out. If anyone can please enlighten me. We tip the barber, the pizza man, the valet, movers and so on.
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: TehBorken on Feb 22 07 02:18
 ripper wrote:
The fact remains that we live in a society that is mostly tip oriented.

At one time we lived in a society that was segregated. That didn't mean it was right.


Mostly i say because some industries just don't get tipped. i can't figure it out.

I don't get it either, to be honest.

 
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Russ on Feb 22 07 02:34
Heres something that I have always pondered. Why do some industries get tipped for service, while others dont?

  I will admit I worked as a gas station attendant for years. It was a full serve station, and many people tipped when you served them as long as you did a decent job. I never thought about it until I worked there.
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Lise on Feb 22 07 03:40
Heck, I should get tips for cleaing everyone's teeth. It's a nasty job!!

  I've never tipped at a gas station before. Do they really? I've tipped at the hair dresser even if I hate my haircut because I feel like I'm obligated to do it (as well as talk to them). Oh and tipping the taxi drivers..... meh. It's highway robbery to take a cab and then to pay them extra for taking you from point A to point B.

  You know what's weird in Florida? If you buy a few items, the grocery boy takes your bags without you asking and puts them into your car then expects you to tip him. Now that I don't understand.
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: ripper on Feb 22 07 03:52
TehBorken wrote:


At one time we lived in a society that was segregated. That didn't mean it was right.

Your comparing apples to oranges. You have no choice in segregation. You have the right to leave a million dollar tip to absolutely nothing. It's voluntary.[BR style="FONT-STYLE: italic"][SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic"] [/SPAN]


 
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: P.C. on Feb 22 07 04:41
Your comparing apples to oranges. You have no choice in segregation. You have the right to leave a million dollar tip to absolutely nothing. It's voluntary.

  Technically it's NOT voluntary.  Voluntary usually comes with a choice.  If the choice is, tip and you get a smile or don't tip and someone pees in your soup....that's not much of a choice.  It's gone so over the top, that it no longer has anything to do with service....they know they will get tipped regardless.

  It really makes me cringe when I hear the waiters/waitresses in our establishment go on about how nasty someone is only to find out that it's all about tips.  It's their gauge of who's nice and who's not.....who doesn't want to serve so and so......sad.[BR style="FONT-STYLE: italic"]
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: ripper on Feb 22 07 05:38
P.C. i agree with you that it has gone overboard. They expect a tip regardless of the service they provide. But that's just the way it is over here. Let me tell you a story. One time  i took a cab from point A to point B. I even instructed him how to get there. Does he listen. Of course not. He takes a longer route. After we arrive i pay him the exact fare. He had the nerve to say "you don't believe in tipping." I glared at him and say i can't afford it and got out.  
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: P.C. on Feb 22 07 05:55
I agree ripper......it IS just the way it is.  

  It's a timely topic though, because I'm amazed at the amount of people who are openly expressing their resentment regarding tipping lately.  

  I tell you a story back....lol.  Recently, where I work, there was a 'celebration of life' function put on by the wife of one of the old fellers that passed away.  He frequented our establishment almost daily for the last 11 years.  A luncheon buffet was put on for their guests.  The tip jars were present on the bar, plus individual tipping throughout the evening by way of their credit cards.

  When they were given their bill the next day, there was a $450.00 gratuity tacked on to the buffet cost.  I have nothing to do with this entity of our establishment, and yet I still felt shame and embarrassment.  Anyways, the son refused to pay it.  I was like ......yeayyyyyyyyy!!!!  Good for you!!! (in my head of course)  THEN the person responsible for this, was relating the story to me, complaining about the guys bad judgement, and I said .....yeayyyyyyyy!!! Good for him !!!  Then I apologized and told him I did not share his feeling of outrage.

  I know that ultimately, tipping will eventually be a thing of the past and the costs will be absorbed into the already overly inflated prices of restaurant fare.  But somehow I think I can live with this more than I can live with the notion that I'm paying wages for a staff I don't have.  
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: ripper on Feb 22 07 06:08
Wow. Talk about greedy. They get tipped all night and still expect a tip the next day. You should read Bitter Waitress. It's hilarious.
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: P.C. on Feb 22 07 06:10
Exactly.  How to get 'em coming and going.

  Bitter Waitress?  Sounds interesting.  Should I guess what it's about?  [img style="CURSOR: pointer" onclick=url(this.src); src="http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/more/bigs/c028.gif" border=0]

.....by ?
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Future Canadian on Feb 22 07 07:15
Great thread! Too bad I caught up to it late.
I work in the kitchen so the whole tipping custom also stikes me as a bit weird and unfair. "Why just the servers?" is my big question. When a server walks out the door with (mostly tax free) cash that is two or three times what the chef makes in a night how is that fair? Cooks are under every bit of intense pressure that servers are, and work just as hard to get the food out hot, quick and well-presented. Cooks also have more schooling and training to get where they are. This is not to dog on servers because I know that is a tough job as well, I'm just saying everyone in a restaraunt works hard and deserves a bigger share of the largesse.

I used to work at a counter service pizza place. It was understandable to me when someone didn't feel the need to tip (unless they had us running around a lot), but those that did tip well always got the nicest slice of pizza.

It is curious though, how it evolved into this customary thing. But I don't mind it, since it's been good to me over the years.
 
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: P.C. on Feb 22 07 07:33
It was understandable to me when someone didn't feel the need to tip (unless they had us running around a lot), [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #dfffbf"]but those that did tip well always got the nicest slice of pizza.[/FONT][/b]

Why?

 
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: TehBorken on Feb 22 07 08:40
[font style="font-family: Verdana;" size="2"] ripper wrote:
Your comparing apples to oranges. You have no choice in segregation.

 
Okay...at one time we lived in a society that thought premarital sex was wrong. Same idea.


You have the right to leave a million dollar tip to absolutely nothing. It's voluntary.


[/font][font style="font-family: Verdana;" color="#696969" size="2"][a href="http://quotationnation.com/quote_9715.htm" class="slnk"]The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets and to steal bread.[/a]  [/font][font style="font-family: Verdana;" size="2"]
[/font]
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: ripper on Feb 23 07 02:51
TehBorkin, if there is such a law i wish they would act upon it. Fact is i practically trip over people sleeping on the sidewalks. As far as the fake homeless goes(panhandlers) i wish that was the case. There mere presence infuriates me.  
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: Trollio on Feb 23 07 04:53
[span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(128, 0, 0);"] Trollio wrote:[/span][br style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(128, 0, 0);"][span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(128, 0, 0);"] I [/span][span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic; color: rgb(128, 0, 0);"]detest[/span][span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(128, 0, 0);"] tipping. [/span][br style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(128, 0, 0);"][br style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(128, 0, 0);"][span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(128, 0, 0);"]But I always do it in restaurants and usually 18-20%. It definitely improves the whole experience, because as wait staff remember the stiffers, they also remember the good tippers.[/span]

A perfect example of why I always tip in restaurants occurred just last night. We were at a function where the host provided what was possibly the most paltry concept of refreshments I have ever seen at a function from 5.00 to 9.30. So afterwards, we ran out looking for someplace to get dinner, and were faced with the ten minutes-to-closing situation. (Most kitchens close at 10.)

We arrived at a place where we are regulars at 9.53.  The waitress initially told the bartender that they were closed, but when she saw that it was us, she came and got us and we in turn got our dinner. Needless to say, she was tipped just over 20%.

As for cruises, those things are so far over the top anyway that you just sort of accept that you're going to be paying out money for a week for all kinds of things. A cruise ship takes in anywhere from 5-10 million dollars [USD] every time it operates. I can see the point of those who don't like the mandatory gratuity, but I get past it by looking at it as if I have hired a maid for the week.
 
Title: Re: Do you believe in tipping?
Post by: ripper on Feb 23 07 06:24
I hear you trollio. The restaurant that i'm a regular in, i'm treated great Mind you i always tip 30%. It's almost like joining a club. Membership comes with many benefits.