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General Category => Discover Seattle! => Topic started by: P.C. on Feb 03 09 07:32

Title: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: P.C. on Feb 03 09 07:32
I get frustrated often times, with the false ideals that 'we' place on athletes.  First of all, they don't meet the requirements to be deemed HEROS.  There isn't that kind of bravery in sports, to be given such a noble title.  Second...they are not by default, role models, philosophers or representatives of apple-pie-eating-hot-dog-loving-wholesome-goodness.

  When they 'get caught' not living up to the standards set by advertising sponsors, we act like they have failed....when in fact the only thing that has failed, is the image that has been falsely set on their shoulders by others.

  When will we learn that sometimes a good swimmer is just a good swimmer and leave it at that.  
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: Sportsdude on Feb 03 09 08:58
marketing.
In the 80s we decided or marketing departments decided to turn players into a brand. This leads to the whole 'role model' scenario as it could/can become your brand. Like Yao Ming- role model to billions, its his brand. Other people's brands dictate that they should be villians others heroes.

woot marketing.
 
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: P.C. on Feb 03 09 09:05
The market may drive some things, but the whole media industry is to blame....setting these people up as idols....not to mention the weak who depend on the media to tell them who their 'heroes' should be. LOL  They are always so shocked when they find out they are just regular people who have a particular skill in a particular sport.  
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: Sportsdude on Feb 03 09 09:32
Like Charles Barkley said "I'm no role model"

Oh they interviewed Obama live yesterday morning on the today show, Lauer pointed out that his face was cut out of the front cover of the family photo for US Weekly for a Jessica Simpson weight problem photo.

Well that's another thing, in the US we tend to view our leaders as role models and then when they show us that they're human like the rest of us, we have a moral let down.  Which is why I never understood how Gordon Campbell survived the DUI in Hawaii. lol

There was a time once where US politicians could get away with that stuff (FDR, JFK come quickly to mind) but that era ceased with the advent of 24hr news and the internet. Now we elect people that we believe represent us and to half the population that means morally.

Somewhere along the line this idea of moral public figures transferred to celebrities and sports atheletes.

That said, the big scandal last year in Asia was Edison Chen. His career is over and the Triads have a hit on him. If that happened in the the US industry he'd be huge.

So there's double standards for everything. If your Hollywood, we like train wrecks. If your Hollywood but have a wholesome image then your a role model who immediately gets disowned by the moralists the instant the 'truth' comes out. lol

Athletes who are prominent must be moral.
Politicians don't get elected if they're not.


 
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: TehBorken on Feb 03 09 10:03
 P.C. wrote:
I get frustrated often times, with the false ideals that 'we' place on athletes.  First of all, they don't meet the requirements to be deemed HEROS.  There isn't that kind of bravery in sports, to be given such a noble title.  

I couldn't agree more. No sports figure is a "hero". They may or may not be role models, but that's another thing altogether.

A "hero" is someone who does something that most people wouldn't do, and there's no pay involved. No astronaut, police officer, fire fighter, or football player qualifies. A person who runs into a burning house and rescues someone is a hero.

No NASCAR driver is a hero, no teacher is a hero, no Senator or or member of Congress, no paramedic, no soldier, no doctor. None of those people qualifies as a "hero" in my book, even though they may do extraordinarily wonderful and amazing things, helpful things, or things worthy of admiration. They may be role models, but they aren't heroes.


[/div][div style="font-style: italic;"]When they 'get caught' not living up to the standards set by advertising sponsors, we act like they have failed....when in fact the only thing that has failed, is the image that has been falsely set on their shoulders by others.

Once again, I couldn't agree more. Why in the world would anyone (should anyone) think that a football player or basketball star is a better person than the average human being? It's insane.



When will we learn that sometimes a good swimmer is just a good swimmer and leave it at that.

Well said. You hit the nail on the head.


 
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: Lil Me on Feb 03 09 01:24
Totally agree.
 
 On another note, am I the only person laughing at the U.S. reaction to a person smoking pot?
 The county sheriff is investigating Michael Phelps and may be pressing charges.  WTF?
 
 (http://www.cannabisculture.com/library/images/uploads/101-Rebagliati.jpg)
 Here in Canada- Great Canadian athlete- Ross Rebagliati.
   
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: Sportsdude on Feb 03 09 02:18
Well it means months in jail. He'll come out a with a thousand tattoos and a couple teeth missing.


 
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: Michel on Feb 03 09 02:31
   
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: Lil Me on Feb 03 09 03:18
LOL
 I don't imagine he will go to jail wearing a Speedo.
   
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: P.C. on Feb 03 09 08:50
Hahahahaaaa.

    Ew.
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: Michel on Feb 03 09 09:06
   
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: Lil Me on Feb 03 09 10:03
(http://www.collegecandy.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/29/michael-phelps-body.jpg)
 He'll be getting lots of action.
   
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: Sportsdude on Feb 03 09 10:04
 He won't be able to swim again if he ever went to prison.... lol


   
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: Michel on Feb 03 09 10:21
     
 
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: Lise on Feb 04 09 05:32
That's Phelps. Somehow he looks better in the photo than in person.

  It's funny to watch the US reaction to Phelps. He's just a human being for crying out loud. He makes mistakes like anyone else. Deal with it.
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: Michel on Feb 04 09 07:17
         
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: Sportsdude on Feb 04 09 08:34
british tabloid took a picture of him in north carolina at a house party using a bong. Then they got witnesses to say he was out of his mind that night. Published the photo, controversy ensued.

[a href="http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gawker/2009/01/phelps_516_0102_25518a.jpg"]http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gawker/2009/01/phelps_516_0102_25518a.jpg[/a]

After the 2004 games he was pulled over for dui.
 
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: Lil Me on Feb 04 09 09:16
Sheesh.  All this fuss about a plant.  Here's a great kids' book....It's Just A Plant.
 [a href="http://www.justaplant.com/"]http://www.justaplant.com/[/a]
   
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: Michel on Feb 04 09 10:12
   
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: P.C. on Feb 04 09 10:18
I still don't know what's all about. I have the amazing power of being able to subconsciously close my ears and eyes and recording nothing about celebrities news. It must be an allergic reaction to stuff that I considered unimportant. Although I see now it's becoming a society phenomena. So he's an handsome athlete that was considered as a hero and he was caught smoking drugs? So now he's bad? lol  

  That was sort of the point of this thread.  He is a good swimmer.....end of story.

  Oh....Fabulous lighting, genious photography and a good photoshop program does not handsome make.  
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: Lil Me on Feb 04 09 11:28
LOL P.C.  The problem is his ears.  
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: Michel on Feb 04 09 11:51
         
 
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: P.C. on Feb 04 09 12:22
Has that got anything to do with that old joke......"How do you hold your liquor"  ? (http://discoverseattle.net/forums/richedit/smileys/Happy/12.gif)
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: Michel on Feb 04 09 12:58
   
 
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: Lil Me on Feb 04 09 01:23
hahahha P.C.
 Michel- say "liquor" out loud.
   
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: Michel on Feb 04 09 01:24
   
 
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: P.C. on Feb 04 09 09:55
LOL....then say 'by the ears' out loud.  

    It might not work for Michel, Lil Me.  I wonder if he might say liqueur.  Then it wouldn't work.
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: Sportsdude on Feb 04 09 11:55
oh no! lost in translation joke! I must do my civic duty as a canadian and give the translation:


lick-her

lol


 
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: 49er on Feb 05 09 11:05
When will we learn not to buy products just because a manufacturer has paid millions to someone to say he/she uses them
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: P.C. on Feb 05 09 12:24
When we stop idolizing sports 'heroes' and the like. .....which takes us back to the original post.  
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: Lil Me on Feb 05 09 03:26
LOL.
 Funny how the "heroes" advertize different products now...like ex- NFL Hall of Famers pitching hair plugs, Viagra and life insurance...
 
 Btw, I think I've mentionned this before-
 but Heckyl and Jeckyl recognize George Foreman for cooking on an indoor grill, not boxing...
   
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: Michel on Feb 05 09 05:11
   
 
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: Sportsdude on Feb 05 09 05:41
because mass marketers have done studies after studies that show people buy things or get behind something/cause that has been promoted by someone with name recognition.



you don't get recognized, promote or sell something in society without name recognition.
 
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: P.C. on Feb 05 09 05:55
Which is odd, because I don't think I have ever purchased a single item in my entire lifetime, because 'so and so' said to.  Ever.

  So the marketing industry is basically counting on the stupidity or shallowness of the average consumer.
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: 49er on Feb 05 09 06:42
 [DIV class="bodytext bodytext_top" id=bodytext_top] [DIV class="georgia md" id=fontprefs_top] (02-05) 18:04 PST , (AP) --

 Michael Phelps was suspended from competition for three months by USA Swimming, the latest fallout from a photo that showed the Olympic great inhaling from a marijuana pipe.

[/DIV]

[DIV class=clear][/DIV][!-- end related_links/sports/index.html --][!-- end: /templates/types/widgets/pages/related_links/rss.tmpl --] [DIV class=hr]The sport's national governing body also cut off its financial support to Phelps for the same three-month period, effective Thursday........[A href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/02/05/sports/s173349S73.DTL&tsp=1"]http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/02/05/sports/s173349S73.DTL&tsp=1[/A]

[DIV class=hr]

[DIV class=hr]  

[DIV class=hr]Financial support??  I thought he was making millions in endorsements

     
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: P.C. on Feb 05 09 06:48
Warped.

  * I just heard that one of the companies he was endorsing has dropped him.

    Maybe Zig-Zag will pick him up. (http://discoverseattle.net/forums/richedit/smileys/Happy/12.gif)
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: Lise on Feb 05 09 07:11
Some heroes deserve special treatment. Wouldn't you say that Terry Fox is the exception?
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: P.C. on Feb 05 09 07:36
 Some heroes deserve special treatment. Wouldn't you say that Terry Fox is the exception?

    I'm not sure what he is the exception to.  

  He was wonderful....courageous and determined.  But even the wonderful Terry was not a hero in any sense of the word.[/DIV]
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: Lise on Feb 05 09 07:56
 I mean, he's the exception to the rule that heroes should be marketed and packaged. At least it's towards a good cause. I think he wouldn't have minded if it's for a good cause.

  I guess everyone has their own version of what it means to be a hero. I still think that Terry Fox deserve his hero status.[/DIV]
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: P.C. on Feb 05 09 08:30
  I mean, he's the exception to the rule that heroes should be marketed and packaged. At least it's towards a good cause. I think he wouldn't have minded if it's for a good cause.



I guess everyone has their own version of what it means to be a hero. I still think that Terry Fox deserve his hero status.

  I'm not against athletes achieving recognition and maybe even celebrity.  That's not really the issue.  It was that they are put out there as heroes,  philosophers, beauty experts....you name it.

  Don't get me wrong....I adored Terry Fox.  He did an incredible thing.  I just don't think it was heroic.  I'll give him a thousand other adjectives....but not hero.

       [/DIV]
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: 49er on Feb 05 09 10:43
P.C. wrote:
Warped.



* I just heard that one of the companies he was endorsing has dropped him.



Maybe Zig-Zag will pick him up. (http://discoverseattle.net/forums/richedit/smileys/Happy/12.gif) [/DIV]
   Wasn't it Zig-Zag that dropped him because he was using a bong
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: stretchedout on Feb 07 09 09:23
Right on P.C.

  Zig Zag doesn't need to advertise - the other rolling paper companies do.
Title: Re: Phelps: When will we learn
Post by: Sportsdude on Feb 09 09 03:09
 [a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=macgregor/090209"]http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=macgregor/090209[/a]

Now that A-rod took roids the media is commenting on what PC is talking about. lol

   "And lo, having learned nothing from history, here we are again. The build-'em-up-to-knock-'em-down zombies of the popular world media cobble up a pair of heroes, a couple of graven images, a couple of pot-metal idols, ship them out to every point on the map, fan the flames of their adoration until things get a little too hot, then harsh everyone's buzz by ratting them out for being only human. Huh. That we turn a profit coming and going on stories like these just means that the great circle of public life remains unbroken.[/p]And what about you the reader? The credulous citizen-consumer, Mr. and Mrs. John Q. Public? Well, having done our sad work, now it's up to you to continue doing yours: to keep confusing celebrity with heroism, to keep bathing those celebrities and heroes in the blinding light of your love, to keep embracing them with every beat of your fevered heart, keep fantasizing about them, dreaming about them, imagining your happily-ever-after with them, writing their name inside the cover of your notebook again and again and again, keep obsessing over what they eat and what they drive and whom they sleep with, keep subscribing by the scores of millions to the magazines with their pictures on the cover, keep wearing what they wear, keep stalking them from the shadows, keep rejoicing in the perfections of their slugging percentage, of their marriages and their beautiful, lively children or wallowing in the sadness of their August slump, of their failed engagements and their well-upholstered loneliness, keep buying their shoes and posters and jerseys and commemorative dinner plates, lining your shelves with the products they endorse, reading their books and watching their talk shows and seeing their movies and playing their video games and downloading their ringtones ... [/p] ... and to keep doing all these things right up until the moment you don't, right up until the very moment they bore you or disappoint you or can't turn on the inside fastball, until the moment they test positive for doing only that which you begged them to do, until the moment they grow fat, grow old, grow dull, until the day they get too much plastic surgery or too little, until the moment you turn on them for being just like you or not like you at all, until the moment you resent their talent and their success and their beauty and their money, until you take back the fame you made for them, until you punish them, take them down a peg by selling an incriminating photo, until the moment you decide to hate them -- not because their lives are so very, very big, but because your own are so very, very small.[/p]On second thought, better never to look in that particular mirror. The American fun house is a dark and scary place, after all, and we're apt to be frightened by what we see. [/p]Better instead to avoid reflection altogether, to simply love our heroes completely and perfectly, and to worship them absolutely until the very moment we tear them limb from limb."[/p]