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Messages - Gopher

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Schadenfreude wrote:
 Why do homosexuals feel they have to announce to the world they are homosexual?

  That's something I've always wondered about, too. Certainly not to make life easier for themselves as they lay themselves open to the homophobia of the ignorant.

Discover Seattle! / Re: 6 Annoying Words
« on: Apr 12 06 12:22 »
Bush, Cheney, Blair, Rice, Awesome, Ginormous

Three cheers for P.C. and Sportsdude!

P.C. wrote:
 Sin is disobedience to god. For instance, if your god has commanded that anyone who commits X act shall be put to death, it's fair to assume that he doesn't want you to do it. If you go ahead and do it, you've sinned.

Pardon my simpicity in this debate, but isn't this the ultimate hypocracy ????   Is it not considered a sin to take the life of another being ?

 Not by the American government

tenkani wrote:
 Woops, missed that one.

  Sin is disobedience to god. For instance, if your god has commanded that anyone who commits X act shall be put to death, it's fair to assume that he doesn't want you to do it. If you go ahead and do it, you've sinned.

  In the Christian faith, all sins but one are forgivable, but if you sin, and continue to sin, and make that sin part of your identity, don't expect forgiveness and acceptance until you've stopped sinning.[/DIV]
 Why are some Christians apparently more obsessed with sin than love?

Discover Seattle! / Re: Obvious Headline Of The Week
« on: Apr 11 06 10:29 »
TehBorken wrote:
[A href=""][/A]

[FONT style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold" size=5]Bush has a credibility issue[/FONT] [H1][!-- InstanceEndEditable --][/H1] [P class=article-author][!-- InstanceBeginEditable name="article-author" --][!-- InstanceEndEditable --]

 [P class=article-source][!-- InstanceBeginEditable name="article-source" --][!-- InstanceEndEditable --]

 What Vice President Dick Cheney’s aide, I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby Jr., said he did in leaking previously classified information to reporters is not unusual. It’s a game members of the Bush administration play regularly with reporters — to the advantage of both.            

 Leaking is a skill that the White House for centuries has honed to get its side of a story out to the public without attribution. It also has been a way to launch trial balloons of programs and policies.

 So it didn’t seem out of the ordinary when President Bush ordered the declassification of the 2002 National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq so, according to Libby, he could leak information regarding Saddam Hussein’s alleged search for uranium from Niger first to Bob Woodard of The Washington Post and then to Judith Miller of The New York Times.

 What is unusual is that no one other than Bush, Cheney and Libby is said to have known of the declassification of the sensitive information or the go-ahead for the leak in the summer of 2003. Such approval usually comes after group discussions in the White House.

 The leak was to rebut a critic of the reasoning behind Bush’s war with Iraq. Former ambassador Joseph Wilson had been sent to Africa by the State Department and paid by the CIA to check out the rumor of Hussein’s search for uranium. He returned with the conclusion that the claim was exaggerated. After Bush used the rumor as fact in his 2003 State of the Union, Wilson went public with his findings in an op-ed piece in the Times and in a TV interview. Within days, Wilson’s wife, CIA undercover operative Valerie Plame, was outed by another leak reportedly by Libby.

 These leaks were vindictive — attempts to destroy the credibility of Wilson and his wife, more so than to dispute Wilson’s public statements. Previously, members of the Bush administration had acknowledged to the media that the uranium rumor was seriously flawed.

 After the leaks, Bush appeared extremely offended and wanted to know whom the leaker was and said he would fire the leaker. Of course, he already knew who the leaker was.

 What Bush, Cheney and Libby are accused of doing isn’t unlawful, but it is hypocritical since the president has long assailed such leaks as threats to national security. By putting politics ahead of national security, our president has lost credibility in the eyes of even more Americans. We join the growing bipartisan voice of America that is urging the president to come clean with his involvement in the Wilson and Plame cases and discuss his rationale for the Libby leak.

 Hrd to believe that such a self-evident  and virtually universally acknowledged truth should merit a headline!

tenkani wrote:
 Well, that's the problem. The old testament demands the execution of homosexuals, while Jesus preaches a philosophy of compassion. But even Jesus would ask that a sinner cease sinning and not allow the sin to become their identity.

  I think the anti-gay bias in the bible is nonsense, but the fundamentalist postition on the issue actually makes more sense than those Christians who state that anti-gay sentiment is "non-christian". If you're going to claim that the bible is your holy book, it's a little silly to turn around and say that it's Ok to be gay.[/DIV]
 Trouble is that so many people think that the Old Testament is a work of the Christian rather than the pre-Christian era. Incidentally, how does one define sin?  

tenkani wrote:
 That's a tough one.

I guess I don't understand homosexuals who choose to remain tied to a religion that brands them as sinners and who's holy book recommends their execution. Gays shouldn't have to "live in secrecy", but on the other hand, demanding that a Christian school accept students who are gay is a bit naive IMO.[/DIV]
 No two ways about it - it's just not Chrtistian (at least not in my interpretation of the word).  

the realist wrote:
  "A former Miss Canada is attempting to bring international attention to the plight of an 18-year-old woman sentenced to death in Iran [after killing a man who attempted to rape her and her niece]".

[A href="" rel=nofollow][FONT color=#0000ff][/FONT][/A]

Sign Petition at:  [A href="" rel=nofollow][FONT color=#0000ff][/FONT][/A]


  This is her.

 Thanks for bringing this petition to my attention

Discover Seattle! / Re: Meth effects
« on: Apr 09 06 11:07 »
soapbox wrote:
 sad part is she was once a established successful dentist in LA.[/DIV]
 Dentist? I heard she was a cosmetic surgeon

Discover Seattle! / Re: Muslims Are INSANE
« on: Apr 08 06 11:43 »
Trollio wrote:
Alas, I am smitten....


Or am I simply smut?

And in doing so, is Gopher proving my point?

[SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic"][SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,127)"]"...Quakers who, for all their pacifism, are some of the most intellectually violent people on the planet."

He or she could well have done so!

Not even a mention of methane!

 Sportsdude wrote:

 Oslo's sewage heats its homes [!-- END HEADLINE --]<=ynmain>[!-- BEGIN STORY BODY --] <=storybody>  [DIV class=storyhdr] [SPAN]By Alister Doyle, Environment Correspondent[/SPAN][EM class=timedate]Fri Apr 7, 10:01 AM ET[/i]

 [DIV class=spacer][/DIV]

In an extreme energy project tapping heat from raw sewage, Oslo's citizens are helping to warm their homes and offices simply by flushing the toilet.

 Large blue machines at the end of a 300-meter long tunnel in a hillside in central Oslo use fridge technology to suck heat from the sewer and transfer it to a network of hot water pipes feeding thousands of radiators and taps around the city.

 "We believe this is the biggest heating system in the world using raw sewage," Lars-Anders Loervik, managing director of Oslo energy company Viken Fjernvarme which runs the plant, told Reuters. The plant opened this week.

 The heat pump, a system of compressors and condensers, cost 90 million Norwegian crowns ($13.95 million) and has an effect of 18 megawatts (MW), enough to heat 9,000 flats or save burning 6,000 tonnes (5,900 tons) of oil a year.

 And experts say sewers could be exploited elsewhere.

 "The technology is there, so if the infrastructure is also there, this is a feasible solution in many cities worldwide," said Monica Axell, head of the International Energy Agency's heat pump center. The agency advises 26 industrialized nations.

 She said a bigger heat pump in Sweden, with a 160 MW capacity, exploited heat from treated sewage. And in Finland, a 90 MW plant ran on waste water.

 In Oslo, untreated sewer flows -- from toilets, bathtubs, sinks and rainwater from the streets -- runs into the system past a filter that keeps out big objects such as dead rats.

 Sewage was flowing into the system at 9.6 Celsius (49.28 Fahrenheit) on Friday and coming out at 5.7 Celsius after heat is extracted with a refrigerant.

 The energy in turn goes to warming the water in the 400 km (250 mile) pipe system, fed to offices and homes, to about 90 C from a temperature of 52 C when it reaches the sewerage plant. Other plants, burning industrial waste, also heat the water.


 Similar heat pumps can be run on any stable source of water -- in Paris the Seine River is tapped to run air-conditioning systems. Sea water can also be exploited.

 Sewer power is less polluting than burning fossil fuels but more than renewable energy like wind power. About a third of the heat energy comes from electricity to drive the system and the other two-thirds is the heat from the sewer.

 "Oil prices have an impact on investment willingness, but more important is the ratio of fuel price and electricity price," Axell said. "A high fuel price and a low electricity price is a strong driver to invest in heat pump technology."

 Among other sewage energy projects worldwide, U.S. scientists are looking to exploit sewage-eating bacteria to generate electricity.

 "The microbial fuel cell work is going well, but we still are not out of the lab on this technology," said Bruce Logan of Pennsylvania State University.

 In Oslo, a problem is that the flow in the sewers is irregular -- Monday mornings between 4-6 a.m. are especially dry because people go to bed early on Sunday. But at weekends, the flow is good.

 "When people have been out to parties there's a lot of beer going into the sewer," said Oyvind Nilsen, the project manager for the Oslo plant.   At the opening ceremony for the plant, Oslo mayor Per Ditlev-Simonsen was given a new toilet seat for his office. "It will be an inspiration," he said.

 [DIV class=spacer]


Discover Seattle! / Re: Muslims Are INSANE
« on: Apr 08 06 11:12 »
Trollio wrote:
First time I've seen this thread.

Gopher wrote:
 [SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic"]Quakers are pretty good at seeing through the dark stuff...[/SPAN]

Gopher, you cannot possibly be a Quaker (can you?), or know too many of them.  I've known Quakers who, for all their pacifism, are some of the most intellectually violent people on the planet. I know what you mean, the whole quiet and the inner light thing of course, but people are people. Quakers themselves joke about this, and they have serious family-renting arguments over the spelling and pronunciation of words. (I've heard this crazy story about semantics from three different devout Quakers in different places with no relation to each other.)

  Trollio, I DO know a lot of Quakers and I'd be the first to agree with you about the matter of semantics: my point was that in matters of comprehensivity re. the matter, and acceptability of the 'inner core' of other religions, they're right on the ball.

Tenkani, check out the work of Yukio Mishima. He'll tell you fairly quick about the flaws of Buddhist monks. The eastern religions are no better than the ones that came out of the Levant. Most monks are monks for a period of time, then they go back to their regular lives. Those regular lives could involve all sorts of debauchery, and then they can go back to being a monk again at any time. Many people are romanced by eastern religions for one reason or another after reading a primer on their belief system. The reality is often much different. Then there's that bit about Gautama not allowing women to become monks for 500 years because it would "delay enlightenment".

To our Wiccan friend, yes, I'm sure they all look alike to you, especially from your perspective of being shunned or persecuted by their followers, but there is a world of difference between Judaism and Christianity on the one hand and Islam on the other. Islam is actually closer in its structural origins to Mormonism (not in doctrine, but in how it came to be a religion from the musings of one individual).

The "truth" is where you find it. Each religion has a version of the "golden rule," and many are derived in great part from those that came before them.

mun wrote:
 hello peoples.
So what do you guys think about the whole god thing? i know this topic has been much talked about and argued about but i just want some peoples own personal opinoin.

  I personaly think there definently is a god. it may not be a big white guy with a flowing beard but in my own life ive always felt something watching over all of us. does this god care? is it all loving? can it do anything about anything? that would be great!!! but...  i duno... but i personaly know theres something out there worth checking out.[/DIV]
 Well, I believe in God - but whether I should refer to God as he, she or it, I've no idea.

Basically I believe in a power that is beyond us all and for the sake of a name, I choose to call it God. But to say that I can comprehend God is another matter: if I COULD comprehend he/she/it then he/she/it would be within the scope of my comprehension and therefore lesser than I: ergo hardly God.

I've heard some say that they understand the workings of God's mind - I find this incredible, and wonder if those same people could even comprehend what goes on in the mind of a budgerigar.

Discover Seattle! / Re: Muslims Are INSANE
« on: Apr 07 06 11:22 »
Sportsdude wrote:
 Its always the extreme's of each religion that ruin the party.

Christian fundies in this country

Extreme Orthodox Jews- in Isreal

Fundimentalist Muslims

Moaist Rebels in Nepal- (they are the worst out all these groups by the way, don't go to nepal, its in anarchy)

Budist Monks are known to get testy



Every religion has a dark side.  Its are responsibility to see thru the dark stuff and see the good in people.[/DIV]
 Quakers are pretty good at seeing through the dark stuff...

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