Canada's public servants earn an average salary far higher than those in the private sector, while the core public service workforce has swelled to its largest size in a decade, according to a new report. [/p] The Treasury Board of Canada posted the 800-page study on its website last week. [/p] In 2002-2003, the average salary of workers in the core public service was $53,000, increasing to $73,400 when factoring in benefits.
[/p]"For me to make that amount of money, I would have to work twice as much time," tradesman Tim Cogswell told CTV News. [/p] In the private sector, the average salary was $38,885. [/p] Roughly three per cent of public servants earned less than $35,000, while the same amount of bureaucrats made more than $100,000. [/p] In the early 1990s, the size of the core public service was about 245,000. But between 1994 and 1998, Jean Chretien's government slashed 75,000 jobs to help curb Canada's deficit. [/p] By 2003, the number of public servants had bounced back to 235,000. The total number of people employed by the government increased to 351,000, excluding Crown corporations and federal business enterprises, at a cost of $25 billion per year. [/p] "By 2002-03 then, the core federal government's effective size was at least as great as in the early 1990s," the report states. [/p] The study also shows that civil servants took a total of 7.74 million days of leave in 2002-2003. On average, each employee took: [/p] [ul][li]17.3 days for vacations [/li][li]8.3 days for sick leave [/li][li]1.6 days for family-related leave [/li][/ul] "I think the whole idea that public servants are somehow overworked is just a farce," said John Williamson of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation. [/p] But civil servant Shannon Steele said she earns her pay. [/p] "Of course I get more benefits and stuff, but I think I deserve them," she said. "I do a lot of work, and it's stressful." [/p] In fact, the study suggests bureaucrats suffer from rising rates of anxiety and depression, despite earning more pay than those in the private sector. [/p] "Our members work in a hostile work environment where they are subjected to discrimination and harassment in the work sites," said Patty Ducharme, vice president of the Public Service Alliance of Canada. [/p] The report makes 77 recommendations, focusing on how Ottawa compensates its employees and deals with unions. In particular, the study says public servants should not be quick to strike for better wage conditions. [/p] "Exceptional bargaining strength derived from the privilege of serving the public should not justify going beyond what is reasonably comparable in equivalent circumstances in the private sector," the report states. "The time has come to search with determination for better ways to settle disputes fairly, without recourse to the strike weapon.
[/p]Full Story:[/p][a href="http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070730/civil_servants_070730/20070730?hub=TopStories"][font size="1"]http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070730/civil_servants_070730/20070730?hub=TopStories[/font][/a]
(http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20070730/160_fife_gfx1_0707302.jpg)
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What a shock, unions pay better.
You still dont get it do you?
We arent complaining about Unions per se.... we are complaining about government employees forming a chokehold over the elected representatives of the taxpayers.. to force the government to raise taxes to pay for the overpaid employee's. Im a firm believer that they should all be fired.. yes fired as they have not shown up for work in days, and be replaced by people who would be more than willing to work for that too little sum to live off of.
Im not in particular a fan of unions.. but I have no issues with private sector unions.. public sector unions are extortion.
maybe not you but most of the "i hate union comments" make absolutely no sense to me. Unions help you, you make more money.
Whilst I hate lazy people too that's not union problem but a local leadership problem. You can't throw a whole orchard of apples out because of a few bad trees.
Unions and people with the union mentality just don't get it. People are sick and tired of their lazy whining asses. Unfortunately we are stuck with them. That's because the government refuses to contract out and allow competition. So a select few have a stranglehold over the rest of society. They will continue with their constant demands and the government will constantly cave in. A perfect example is teachers. Yes Sportsdude teachers. I don't know whether to laugh or cry whenever i hear "but it's for the kids" whenever they go on strike. I have yet to see any kids benefiting from a teacher strike. I see the exact opposite. With property taxes going through the roof, you'd figure the school boards are swimming in cash. Yet schools are constantly having fundraisers and such events to raise money to help buy supplies. What happened to all that money? Staff. They are all grossly overpaid and under worked.
what happens to all the money?
lol
Here's what happens governments do this all the time. We raise property taxes and then the government decides to cut normal funding. Also books and computers need to be constantly replaced and buildings get old.
My cousins high school still had history books with maps that had Soviet Union on them.
So when the governments cut funding they've always provided schools are then short changed and cut music/arts/industrial arts and then eventually sports.
People are sick and tired of their lazy whining asses.
likewise people are tired of non union people whining about not being paid enough. It's a two way street I believe.
I have yet to see any kids benefiting from a teacher strike.
And I have yet to see a child benefit from old textbooks and falling apart schools.
"With property taxes going through the roof, you'd figure the school boards are swimming in cash."
Honestly, have you ever taken a business class? We are talking about districts with thousands of workers along with older buildings that need constant repairs, then constant changing of technology means it needs upgrading every 5 or 7 years before they become obsolete. Books that have to be replaced or you the parents will get angry. Then schools get over crowded the more kids that are in a class means the less likely they're going to learn. Special education for the kids that can't learn in a regular environment and if they weren't separated they'd hold back the regular kids. Then comes transportation.
Schools are not just a learning institution too, you've got daycare, transportation, technology, secruity, food.
This costs money. And if you don't like it join or get involved in your childs school and maybe you'll see what the problems are. The problem is people who don't know what they are talking about telling people who do know what they're talking about how to do their job.
Would you like it if somebody off the street told you how to do your job? I didn't think so.
I got to hand it to you. You sure are passionate about unions. Yes i have taken business courses. Majored in accounting. Many moons ago. You seem to be the stat man. Show me one stat where the government has cut funding to schools and i'll never revisit this issue again. I don't know about Seattle, but here in Canada, you bring your own damn food. Strike one no pun intended. We do not have armed guards with metal detectors in our schools so there goes another so called expense. As for daycare, since when has that come out of the school budget. The fact remains that the biggest expense facing goverment is their bloated "workforce". Now that's funny.
maybe not you but most of the "i hate union comments" make absolutely no sense to me. Unions help you, you make more money.
Whilst I hate lazy people too that's not union problem but a local leadership problem. You can't throw a whole orchard of apples out because of a few bad trees.
That IS the problem. Unions may help you make more money, but it distorts the value of a job. There are jobs that have a value that hits a ceiling. Some require unskilled labour and should never be worth more than what they are worth. I'm not saying that unskilled labour doesn't have a value....just that the dollar value of some jobs has a limit. Unions alter that reality.....then everyone else needs to follow suit...distorting the job's worth. That's how we once ended up with kids making $27 stocking grocery shelves.
When you've got kids with university degrees doing menial labour because it pays better than the careers they were educated for, something is out of whack.
You CAN throw a whole orchard of apples out if you don't need any more apples.
P.C. wrote:
maybe not you but most of the "i hate union comments" make absolutely no sense to me. Unions help you, you make more money.
Whilst I hate lazy people too that's not union problem but a local leadership problem. You can't throw a whole orchard of apples out because of a few bad trees.
That IS the problem. Unions may help you make more money, but it distorts the value of a job. There are jobs that have a value that hits a ceiling. Some require unskilled labour and should never be worth more than what they are worth. I'm not saying that unskilled labour doesn't have a value....just that the dollar value of some jobs has a limit. Unions alter that reality.....then everyone else needs to follow suit...distorting the job's worth. That's how we once ended up with kids making $27 stocking grocery shelves.
When you've got kids with university degrees doing menial labour because it pays better that the careers they were educated for, something is out of whack.
You CAN throw a whole orchard of apples out if you don't need any more apples. [/DIV]
And these same people wonder why corprations are setting up shop in other countries. Frankly i have little sympathy for these people. They had it too good for too long. Gone are the days when pushing a green button for start and a red button for stop is worth $40 an hour. Corporations were once held hostage by their workers with their incessant demands. Now they're fighting back.
Maybe apples and orchards are a bad analogy... think cows and mad cow disease...
No seriously.. to me public servant unions should not be allowed and the government should contract out or sack the lot of them when they strike. Offer the jobs up to anyone and including the people that were fired.. at the current rate of pay which was just proven as being costly. Look at Toronto.. they are screwed. Why should the taxpayers keep subsidizing them at higher taxes every year? I really think we should keep the services as government employees.. but it will all be privatized if the unions keep overdoing it like they are.
To me.. Private Sector unions are like guilds. This is because there is a check and balance with a level playing field. Why you ask do I say that there is a level playing field? Because there are non-union businesses and workforces that will take the place of the unions.. so they have to be competitive and they have a standard to answer to. On the same token, private sector businesses and workforces are kept to a standard as well.. by public opinion and government regulations, which by themselves are formed by public opinion. Media coverage has given the public knowledge and a voice in local and federal affairs that were not achieved when unions were needed.
[DIV class=storyheader] [H2]Canadians feel unions essential: Angus Reid poll[/H2]
[DIV class=feed_details] [H4]Bruce Constantineau, Vancouver Sun[/H4][SPAN]Published: Monday, July 30, 2007[/SPAN]
Canadians feel labour unions are essential but don't fully support the way they exercise power and gain influence, according to an Angus Reid Strategies poll.
The online survey found that 59 per cent of Canadians believe unions are an important entity in society while 72 per cent feel unions effectively improve worker salaries and working conditions.
But 70 per cent of those surveyed think labour unions are too involved in political activities and 48 per cent believe unions have too much influence in Canadian life.
Those from Atlantic Canada are generally more supportive of unions, with only 30 per cent of Atlantic Canadians feeling unions have too much influence in Canadian life, compared with a national average of 48 per cent.
Canadians 55 and over, those with university education and those in households earning less than $50,000 a year are more likely to believe that labour unions are necessary to society and improve conditions for workers.
The online survey of 1,000 adult Canadians was conducted on July 23 and July 24 and is considered to be accurate within 3.1 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.
Linky: [A href="http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=8812cbc4-64d1-419b-860a-731ee1367bbd&k=99886"]http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=8812cbc4-64d1-419b-860a-731ee1367bbd&k=99886[/A]
Public servants and their unions are absolutely useless. Other than policing, firefighting and teaching, the government has no business being an employer. Their job is to provide a safe and functioning society and not a job for life for a bunch of whining overpaid and underworked people. By paying such lavish salaries and benefits, on our dime mind you, they skew the entire pay scale out of whack. Their is no way anybody can convince me that a guy/girl who mows the lawn at our parks is worth over $20 an hour. Every department should be terminated and the jobs contracted out. This will improve both cost and efficiency.
I agree with everyone here against unions.
They allow, in some instances, highschool dropouts to earn more money than university educated people.
Anyone in public sector unions are overpaid. You never see any of the city employees quitting because they are overworked and underpaid. They know how cushie they have it.
The problem is corporations and the private sector is anti union. They always have and always will. I agree that the public sector is about full when it comes to pay raise. Its got nowhere to go. But where the unions want to go which is the corporate arena they're banned. That's where the fighting starts. When politicians are talking about having employees the ability to unionize, they're talking about the corporate world where CEO's are making millions and their workers are making barely nothing. That is not right.
What's not fair about it. These CEO's have paid their dues. They have spent time and effort, never mind money, going to school to get their degrees. They started at the bottom of the ladder and clawed their way up. The sacrifices and tradeoffs are something that is never mentioned. From staying late to working seven days a week, relationships are put off or strained. They barely get to see their children or their spouses. Social life? Forget about it. Ambition and work are their misstresses. Business is like war. The CEO's are the generals. Their vision for the company affects workers and more importantly shareholders. Companies have risen and fallen because of CEO's and their leadership. For that they have earned every penny.
ripper wrote:
Public servants and their unions are absolutely useless. Other than policing, firefighting and teaching, the government has no business being an employer. Their job is to provide a safe and functioning society and not a job for life for a bunch of whining overpaid and underworked people. By paying such lavish salaries and benefits, on our dime mind you, they skew the entire pay scale out of whack. [span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 64);"]Their is no way anybody can convince me that a guy/girl who mows the lawn at our parks is worth over $20 an hour. Every department should be terminated and the jobs contracted out. This will improve both cost and efficiency.[/span]
[hr style="width: 100%; height: 2px;"]
I totally agree. City Workers who water the plants and tend to the cleanliness of the streets make well over 20 an hour whilst those with a uni degree get stuck with jobs starting at 10/hr. They're a bunch of whiners.
purelife wrote:
I totally agree. City Workers who water the plants and tend to the cleanliness of the streets make well over 20 an hour whilst those with a uni degree get stuck with jobs starting at 10/hr. They're a bunch of whiners.
So you're saying all these guys should be getting $10/hour or less to be par with uni. graduates who allowed themselves to get stuck with $10 jobs ?
Ah crap... I guess that is what I was saying when you read it, but I didn't mean it that way. Ah what the heck, I'm confusing myself. I'm going to leave this thread.
I'm not 100% pro-union but when you see hard working people scraping by with below living wages and exploited by greedy businesses with the government turning a blind eye at the situation, I see unions having a place in our society.
49er wrote:
I'm not 100% pro-union but when you see hard working people scraping by with below living wages and exploited by greedy businesses with the government turning a blind eye at the situation, I see unions having a place in our society.[/DIV]
I agree in a way.. and not in others. Is that ten taking into effect the cost of benefits? Why should taxpayers carry someone?
Ten is too little for that, even I say.. but more like 16..
EDIT: I think im crossing my wires here. Im 100% against any government worker being union as they are to serve the public, not have a stranglehold over the public purse.. Im not against PRIVATE unions, as they are checked and blanced by companies choosing between union or no-unions.
It's scary when you think how $75,000 doesn't even go that far anymore once you are through paying taxes and vehicle and rent or mortgage expenses.
Welcome! Havent seen you here yet.
Yes 75k isnt alot nowadays.. but its still well above the national average. Why should the taxpayers continue to fund alot of money for this? Right or wrong.. our taxdollars should be spent frugally. We are already taxed to death.
Look at the current union situation with vancouver. The people supposed to be on strike were working in the private sector. Goes to show you that theres some hypocracy there. Im of the opinion that garbage collection should be privatized.. part of vancouver already is, and our neighbors in surrey already are.
What? 75K isn't a LOT? OMG! I guess we all have to have those designer clothes, handbags, that apartment or house on the westside or Yaletown so we can show off to our friends how trendy we look! Give me $75K gross and I am happy! What a bunchy greed superficial buggers you are. No wonder Vancouver is becoming such an unaffordable city to live in, it's people like you that make it unaffordable.
OMG wrote:
What? 75K isn't a LOT? OMG! I guess we all have to have those designer clothes, handbags, that apartment or house on the westside or Yaletown so we can show off to our friends how trendy we look! Give me $75K gross and I am happy! What a bunchy greed superficial buggers you are. No wonder Vancouver is becoming such an unaffordable city to live in, it's people like you that make it unaffordable.
I couldn't have said it better myself. It's one thing if it's a profesional, i.e doctor, or lawyer or any other people who are highly educated and have paid their dues. The problem is were talking about public servants. People who are grade three dropouts who in the real world would not be fit to work for MacDonalds. The whole lot makes me sick.