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General Category => Discover Seattle! => Topic started by: No Sympathy on Feb 21 06 07:03

Title: Cry me a river
Post by: No Sympathy on Feb 21 06 07:03
The court has okayed this scumbag's execution, but some of the doctors walked out citing these concerns:

[font class="newstext"]"The change was made after Morales and hisattorneys argued that the three-part lethal injection cocktail used inCalifornia and 35 other states violated the Eighth Amendmentprohibition against cruel and unusual punishment. They said a prisonerwould feel excruciating pain from the last two chemicals if he were notfully sedated."

You know what? Boo hoo.  I don't care. Will it be as "excruciating" as the pain this young girl felt as Morales bashed her face in with a hammer? (Terri Lynn Winchell was found beaten, stabbed and raped in a remote area near Lodi, in Northern California's San Joaquin County on Jan. 8, 1981. Her face was so badly beaten with a hammer that she had to be identified through dental records.)

So frankly, I don't give a flying f*ck if this maggot's last few minutes is spent in excruciating pain. In fact, I'm all for it. If it was up to me, he'd suffer a lot more.


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Title: Re: Cry me a river
Post by: Witch on Feb 21 06 07:09
Which makes you no better than him...
Title: Re: Cry me a river
Post by: No Sympathy on Feb 21 06 07:26
> Which makes you no better than him...

I never claimed to be "better than him". On the other hand, I don't rape and murder young girls, so maybe I am better than him.
Title: Re: Cry me a river
Post by: GET REAL on Feb 21 06 07:33
WHAT A FINE HEROIC PERSON MR MORALES IS, SURELY HE SHOULD BE SPARED!!
[hr style="width: 100%; height: 2px;"]
[span class="bodytext"] The attack began in Ortega's car when Morales,then 21, tried to strangle Winchell from behind with a belt, whichbroke. Morales' roommate, Patricia Felix, later testified that heearlier had rehearsed the strangulation by wrapping his belt around herneck.

 A state attorney general's report said, "She screamed for Ortegato help and attempted to fight off the attack, ripping her own hair outof her scalp in the struggle."

Morales then beat Winchell on the head with a claw hammer untilher face was no longer recognizable. Then he dragged her face-downacross a road and into a vineyard, where he raped her.

Morales then stabbed her four times in the heart. Later thatnight, he spent $11 he found in her purse on beer, wine and cigarettes.
[/span]
Title: Re: Cry me a river
Post by: BC Bill on Feb 21 06 08:00
I don't feel any sympathy for Mr Morales either. I know I should, but I can't.
Title: Re: Cry me a river
Post by: 49er on Feb 21 06 09:07
he's scheduled to be executed tonight at 7:30 pm........he just have to think about his own death in his isolation cell more hours than if he was executed this morning
Title: Re: Cry me a river
Post by: Witch on Feb 21 06 10:38
I don't feel any sympathy for him either, but neither do I wish him pain or torture.

To wish to torture someone for revenge makes you no better, nor gives you any right to judge, the person who murders, rapes, or whatever. Torture for revenge removes the element of justice. When we give in to feelings that allow us to think that inflicitng pain intentionally on another human being is ok, no matter what the circumstances, we become the monster we seek to punish.

Will torturing this man bring back his victim? No.[/DIV]Will torturing this man change his behaviour or teach him a lesson? No, since he'll be much too dead to change.

So what will it do, other than give some sick sense of satisfaction to those who do or propose or condone the torture?

I don't believe in the death penalty myself, although cases like this sometimes give me pause to reflect on my beliefs, as they should. But we sometimes have to kill... it's jsut the way things are. If I cannot rid my home of roaches by discouraging them, then I may have to kill them. So be it.

But if I do have to kill them it is my responsibility to make sure I do so in the most humane and painless way I can, despite anything they may have done to me. If I choose to torture and delight in the pain of each one as it dies, I have crossed the line from executioner to sadist.  If this man must die, so be it, but I will not delight in his death, and I will not delight in his pain.  I will not become what he is.
Title: Re: Cry me a river
Post by: tenkani on Feb 21 06 02:31
Witch, I've tried to put those feelings into words in the past and failed miserably. Thank you for your eloquence and wisdom.
Title: Re: Cry me a river
Post by: kevlar on Feb 21 06 03:11
Sorry but call me a sadist. [/DIV]If this was my daughter, hand me the hammer and forget the needle !!!!!!
Title: Re: Cry me a river
Post by: Future Canadian on Feb 21 06 06:24
The death penalty is not revenge. It is a punishment. He took her life in a sadiststic, thoughtless, and brutal way. Meting out punishment for this act after careful deliberation does not make us the same monster as him. [/DIV]There is no reason to keep this human around after the pain he has wrought upon the victim, family, and everyone who hears of this unspeakable act.The death penalty is not easy to swallow (I don't like the government involved in the business of killing its own - even though they're well rehearsed at it), but I can think of no other worthy punishment for this monster.
Title: Re: Cry me a river
Post by: 49er on Feb 21 06 08:36
now it has been postponed indefinitely
Title: Re: Cry me a river
Post by: Witch on Feb 22 06 07:20
We're not talking about the death penalty. We're talking about a method of administering the death penalty that would result in excrutiating pain.
Title: Re: Cry me a river
Post by: P.C. on Feb 22 06 09:10
I don't believe in the death penalty, but so many times that belief gets so shaken.  The fear of error sickens me. Imagining my loved ones being taken away from me in a hideous manner sickens me.  And yet deliberately and in an organized manner, the taking of another human life sickens me too.  I talk myself in circles.

Sometimes I start to wonder if it's some form of culling the flock.  DO people with no regard for human life have the right to impose this on those that do ????  I just don't know.  I need to stick to what I feel is fundamentally right.
Title: Re: Cry me a river
Post by: Brent on Feb 22 06 09:29
My two responses here are 1) give him over to the girl's family/loved ones and let them be alone w/him. Simple, fair.    2) Death Penalty;  we should each sign something saying whether or not some creep who kills you on purpose , if YOU want him to get the death penalty or life in jail(10years).  I'd sign for him/her? getting the death thing personally, but you nicer types do what you like. Bit of a raffle for 'them', but fair.
Title: Re: Cry me a river
Post by: tenkani on Feb 22 06 10:57
I don't like my government to get too far up into my business.[/DIV]On the other hand, leaving the punishment of criminals up to the individuals they harm is patently ludicrous. Our justice system should be about...justice...not sadism or revenge.

If someone killed my daughter, I would absolutely want to see that person die screaming, which is why I should never be given the opportunity to judge that person. Victims, understandably, are often not interested in even-handed justice. They want vengeance. That's precisely why we need an independant, relatively objective judicial system to handle the matter.

I've run into quite a few people who are intelligent, lighthearted and open-minded, but when it comes to dealing with criminals, they espouse the "eye-for-an-eye" perspective. A rapist should be raped. A murderer should be murdered etc. Even when presented with evidence that such punishments often have no preventative effect, they persist in arguing that such a system is just. Personally, I want no part of a legal system that rapes, tortures and murders prisoners, regardless of what they are accused of.  On the other hand, I'm pissed off when I hear about someone getting a short term for a violent crime. How about we end this stupid f*cking war on drugs, stop putting people away for victimless crimes and increase the sentences for violent criminals? </rant>
Title: Re: Cry me a river
Post by: Sportsdude on Feb 22 06 12:12
The funny thing is if they get the death penalty here's how it should feel. Count backwards from 10. zzzzz. time of death blah, blah, blah. [/DIV]Want the criminal to feel real pain? Lock him up and never let him or her go outside for the rest of there life. Longer they are in prison the better in my opinion. Death Penalty is just a cop out, quick fix.
Title: Re: Cry me a river
Post by: primefactor on Feb 22 06 06:09
Want the criminal to feel real pain? Lock him up and never let him or her go outside for the rest of there life. Longer they are in prison the better in my opinion. Death Penalty is just a cop out, quick fix.[/DIV]
You don't get the Death Penalty for minor crimes, or even for most types of murder. You get it for brutal and premeditated murder. The type where you fantasize about your crime, plan for it, hunt your victims. Spending the rest of your life in a place where you're warm and fed, where you can read, watch television, exercise, socialize, whack off while you relive the delicious memory of a woman begging for her life while you stab her to death... Oh, but it's "real pain" just because you can't walk out the door and leave when you want?

I'm not saying that means it's a clever idea to torture murderers to death, or that I trust the government with killing people. I am a liberal, a pacifist, and an agnostic. I have never been in a fight or spanked my kids. I don't enjoy the pain of others, not even in "harmless" ways like laughing at home videos with  people falling on their butts or smushing wedding cake on each others' faces. I am a wuss.  But the Death Penalty is not actually meant to be a deterrant or a lesson. It's a consequence. Of bad actions and bad choices. Administered to bad people. You don't get to that point by making a mistake. And the whole argument about how it's actually more expensive to execute people than to incarcerate them for their natural life is not accurate. It's trying to PREVENT their being executed that surpasses the cost of incarceration. The legal stuff. The execution itself is cheap.  And every time a murderer is executed, while it's not PC to show it on the outside in the circles in which I move... my recycling, non-car-owning, volunteer-work-doing, Democrat-voting, cruelty-free-hemp-lotion-moisturized hands secretly clap together in approval. I am glad somone is willing to pull the switch, even knowing that it won't bring anyone's murdered loved-one back. And I don't stand by comfortably intellectualizing or philosophizing about the fine ethical points of how the grieving family or our entire culture chooses to deal with a pain and rage I am lucky enough not to understand first hand.
Title: Re: Cry me a river
Post by: tenkani on Feb 22 06 06:35
Yeah well, to boil it down, the death penalty is not a deterrent and is (due to our legal system) more expensive than life in prison. So what does it achieve that a life sentence does not? It makes certain people feel better. Sorry, that's not a good enough reason IMO to take the life of someone who is essentially incapable of causing harm to the public. That's not even taking into account the embarrassing mistakes we've made. Executing an innocent person is a real "D'oh!" moment. Again, not worth it for something that does not make America safer in any way.
Title: Re: Cry me a river
Post by: Lisa Maree on Feb 24 06 12:32
One of the larger purposes of punishment is to act as a deterrent.  Some people don't commit horrific crimes because they don't want to be killed by legal injection, or any other means sought to bring forth death.  Some do without any regard for the punishment.  A person who commits crimes to the degree of warranting the death penalty already have no regard for the consequences.

I don't agree that we should kill another human being as a form of amendment.  I think life in prison is punishment enough.  Having to live with what you've done, while breathing the stagnant air of rock walls and knowing that your family and friends are on the outside living on without you is torture itself.   What lesson do we teach about how wrong it is to kill when we kill the wrong?