How many of you believe.....

Started by TRUTH, Feb 18 06 02:09

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TRUTH

How many of you believe that an airplane ("American Airlines flight 77") crashed into the Pentagon?

Take a look at this and then answer the question:

[a href="http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon.php"]http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon.php[/a]



P.C.

Wow.  IF ALL the evidence there IS,  was shown in that clip, I'd say no.  But it's hard to know exactly what we're looking at.  Are we seeing all there is to see ? I'm aware of how the context of anything can be altered, simply by omission, or by adding dialogue selectively.
Sir Isaac Newton invented the swinging door....for the convenience of his cat.

Witch

That would probably be funny if it weren't for the subject matter. I'm not really sure I support the author trying to make a joke about that incident.

kits

I have viewed a number of DVDs that attempt to probe that there is no way that a plane could have possibly made that hole.  Some pretty convincing stuff....  I am not sure what I believe, but i am certainly open to the possibility that it was not an airplane.
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

TehBorken

I personally have no doubt that whatever hit the Pentagon was NOT a Boeing 757. No way.

That memoryhole video shows just a few of the things that just don't make sense. You don't have to be an aviation disaster analyst to see that the story doesn't match the evidence at all.

For example, in virtually every crash of any modern passenger plane you will find certain specific items such as tray tables and luggage, to name just a couple. It's absolutely 100% guaranteed- these items are either built into or carried onboard the plane.

Tray tables often become detatched from the seats and are flung all over by the force of the crash as well as by secondary impact events (passenger hits a chair, chair breaks off and hits a another chair, etc, etc).

Luggage is also likely to be strewn around if it's a typical crash, and more importantly most luggage isn't built to withstand crashing into the ground at 600mph (no matter what Samsonite would have you believe). So what happens is that a lot of the pieces of luggage burst open and the clothes inside get flung around all over by crash forces and aerodynamic disturbances (to put it mildly).

These are just two very very typical things that happen when a passenger plane crashes.

In the Pentagon imagery, however, there is no sign whatsoever of any tray tables or luggage or clothing....none, nada, zero, zip, zilch. Hello? THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE....unless what crashed wasn't a passenger plane.

The other undisputable item is that there don't appear to be any wings, wing damage, wing marks, wing bits and pieces.... Where did those wascally wings go?!

Also as the video shows, whatever it was that hit bored a nice clean f*cking hole through multiple rings reinforced concrete. There's no way a 757 or any other (soft, aluminum-nose airplane) is going to do that. There are things that will do that, but a passenger plane isn't one of them.  

So, a few of the unanswerable questions are
[ul][li]Why don't we see the inevitable debris from plane the size of a 757 hitting a building? [/li][li]Where did the wings go? It's a simple question: Where did the wings go? [/li][li]How did a soft-nose passenger plane punch a nice tidy hole through so much damn concrete and steel rebar?[/li][/ul]
I don't claim to know what hit the Pentagon, but I do know what didn't hit it. It wasn't a Boeing 757.

The real trouble with reality is that there's no background music.

Witch

Wow, I'm floored. Here I thought it was a joke. Apparently there actually are people who think it wasn't the plane.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, but really. Isn't this kind of way out there on the conspiracy theory wing?

TehBorken

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, but really. Isn't this kind of way out there on the conspiracy theory wing?

I'm not offended. Yes, it sounds wild, bizarre, crazy, etc etc.....but when you look at the evidence, the 'official' story is just utterly impossible to believe. I mean, look for yourself. What they claim happened, didn't happen. Couldn't have happened.

You tell me- where did the debris, luggage and bodies go?

It's an uncomfortable truth that we've been lied to. Most people don't want to go there because of the things it implies. But the fact is that there is no way to reconcile the physical evidence with the story we're being given. It's impossible.

The real trouble with reality is that there's no background music.

primefactor

Yeah, you know... I had never really thought about it until I saw this stuff. I generally pay little mind to anything that sounds "conspiracy theory"-esque, because I am a big supporter of skepticism and critical thinking, and so often conspiracy theories and paranormal theories take the approach of saying, "Well, since we don't know what this phenomenon IS, it MUST have a magical/fantastical/sinister explanation," which is misguided. But then after reading this Pentagon bit, I realized that we all heard a LOT about the sad victims of the other plane crashes, and heard their relatives talk about the tragedies. We heard about the recoveries of even the tiniest fragments of flesh, teeth, wedding rings. But on the Pentagon crash? Nada. Does anyone know if there is a list of the passengers? Because if there is, it seems it would be fairly easy to check out whether or not they are real people.

P.C.

I just watched it YET AGAIN, and 'from THOSE pictures', it sure doesn't look like a plane did that damage.  The image that was shown on impact, shows nothing moving across the path TO impact.  It's very strange.
Sir Isaac Newton invented the swinging door....for the convenience of his cat.

TehBorken

I am a big supporter of skepticism and critical thinking,

And so am I, very much so in fact. I'm a big fan of the [a href="http://www.randi.org/"]Amazing Randi[/a], probably the world's greatest debunker.


and so often conspiracy theories and paranormal theories take the approach of saying, "Well, since we don't know what this phenomenon IS, it MUST have a magical/fantastical/sinister explanation,"

Basically the problem here is that the story doesn't fit the evidence. No one's suggesting a magical or supernatural explanation. "Sinister" might end up fitting quite well, though.
The real trouble with reality is that there's no background music.

Bogus

[H1]AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT 77[/H1][P class=text]American Airlines Flight 77, from Washington to Los Angeles, crashed into the Pentagon with 64 people aboard.


[P class=text][H3]CREW [/H3]

[P class=text]Charles Burlingame of Herndon, Virginia, was the plane's captain. He is survived by a wife, a daughter and a grandson. He had more than 20 years of experience flying with American Airlines and was a former U.S. Navy pilot.

[P class=text]David Charlebois, who lived in Washington's Dupont Circle neighborhood, was the first officer on the flight. "He was handsome and happy and very centered," his neighbor Travis White, told The Washington Post. "His life was the kind of life I wanted to have some day."

[P class=text]Michele Heidenberger of Chevy Chase, Maryland, was a flight attendant for 30 years. She left behind a husband, a pilot, and a daughter and son.

[P class=text]Flight attendant Jennifer Lewis, 38, of Culpeper, Virginia, was the wife of flight attendant Kenneth Lewis.

[P class=text]Flight attendant Kenneth Lewis, 49, of Culpeper, Virginia, was the husband of flight attendant Jennifer Lewis.

[P class=text]Renee May, 39, of Baltimore, Maryland, was a flight attendant.



[P class=text][H3]PASSENGERS[/H3]

[P class=text]Paul Ambrose, 32, of Washington, was a physician who worked with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the surgeon general to address racial and ethnic disparities in health. A 1995 graduate of Marshall University School of Medicine, Ambrose last year was named the Luther Terry Fellow of the Association of Teachers of Preventative Medicine.

[P class=text]Yeneneh Betru, 35, was from Burbank, California.

[P class=text]M.J. Booth

[P class=text]Bernard Brown, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

[P class=text]Suzanne Calley, 42, of San Martin, California, was an employee of Cisco Systems Inc.

[P class=text]William Caswell

[P class=text]Sarah Clark, 65, of Columbia, Maryland, was a sixth-grade teacher at Backus Middle School in Washington. She was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

[P class=text]Asia Cottom, 11, was a student at Backus Middle School in Washington. Asia was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

[P class=text]James Debeuneure, 58, of Upper Marlboro, Maryland, was a fifth-grade teacher at Ketcham Elementary School in Washington. He was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

[P class=text]Rodney Dickens, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

[P class=text]Eddie Dillard

[P class=text]Charles Droz

[P class=text]Barbara Edwards, 58, of Las Vegas, Nevada, was a teacher at Palo Verde High School in Las Vegas.

[P class=text]Charles S. Falkenberg, 45, of University Park, Maryland, was the director of research at ECOlogic Corp., a software engineering firm. He worked on data systems for NASA and also developed data systems for the study of global and regional environmental issues. Falkenburg was traveling with his wife, Leslie Whittingham, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3.

[P class=text]Zoe Falkenberg, 8, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham.

[P class=text]Dana Falkenberg, 3, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham.

[P class=text]Joe Ferguson was the director of the National Geographic Society's geography education outreach program in Washington. He was accompanying a group of students and teachers on an educational trip to the Channel Islands in California. A Mississippi native, he joined the society in 1987. "Joe Feguson's final hours at the Geographic reveal the depth of his commitment to one of the things he really loved," said John Fahey Jr., the society's president. "Joe was here at the office until late Monday evening preparing for this trip. It was his goal to make this trip perfect in every way."

[P class=text]Wilson "Bud" Flagg of Millwood, Virginia, was a retired Navy admiral and retired American Airlines pilot.

[P class=text]Dee Flagg

[P class=text]Richard Gabriel

[P class=text]Ian Gray, 55, of Washington was the president of a health-care consulting firm.

[P class=text]Stanley Hall, 68, was from Rancho Palos Verdes, California.

[P class=text]Bryan Jack, 48, of Alexandria, Virginia, was a senior executive at the Defense Department.

[P class=text]Steven D. "Jake" Jacoby, 43, of Alexandria, Virginia, was the chief operating officer of Metrocall Inc., a wireless data and messaging company.

[P class=text]Ann Judge, 49, of Virginia was the travel office manager for the National Geographic Society. She was accompanying a group of students and teachers on an educational trip to the Channel Islands in California. Society President John Fahey Jr. said one of his fondest memories of Judge is a voice mail she and a colleague once left him while they were rafting the Monkey River in Belize. "This was quintessential Ann -- living life to the fullest and wanting to share it with others," he said.

[P class=text]Chandler Keller, 29, was a Boeing propulsion engineer from El Segundo, California.

[P class=text]Yvonne Kennedy

[P class=text]Norma Khan, 45, from Reston, Virginia was a nonprofit organization manager.

[P class=text]Karen A. Kincaid, 40, was a lawyer with the Washington firm of Wiley Rein & Fielding. She joined the firm in 1993 and was part of the its telecommunications practice. She was married to Peter Batacan.

[P class=text]Norma Langsteuerle

[P class=text]Dong Lee

[P class=text]Dora Menchaca, 45, of Santa Monica, California, was the associate director of clinical research for a biotech firm.

[P class=text]Christopher Newton, 38, of Anaheim, California, was president and chief executive officer of Work-Life Benefits, a consultation and referral service. He was married and had two children. Newton was on his way back to Orange County to retrieve his family's yellow Labrador, who had been left behind until they could settle into their new home in Arlington, Virginia.

[P class=text]Barbara Olson, 45, was a conservative commentator who often appeared on CNN and was married to U.S. Solicitor General Theodore Olson. She twice called her husband as the plane was being hijacked and described some details, including that the attackers were armed with knives. She had planned to take a different flight, but she changed it at the last minute so that she could be with her husband on his birthday. She worked as an investigator for the House Government Reform Committee in the mid-1990s and later worked on the staff of Senate Minority Whip Don Nickles.

[P class=text]Ruben Ornedo, 39, of Los Angeles, California, was a Boeing propulsion engineer.

[P class=text]Robert Penniger, 63, of Poway, California, was an electrical engineer with BAE Systems.

[P class=text]Lisa Raines, 42, was senior vice president for government relations at the Washington office of Genzyme, a biotechnology firm. She was from Great Falls, Virginia, and was married to Stephen Push. She worked with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration on developing a new policy governing cellular therapies, announced in 1997. She also worked on other major health-care legislation.

[P class=text]Todd Reuben, 40, of Potomac, Maryland, was a tax and business lawyer.

[P class=text]John Sammartino

[P class=text]Diane Simmons

[P class=text]George Simmons

[P class=text]Mari-Rae Sopper of Santa Barbara, California, was a women's gymnastics coach at the University of California at Santa Barbara. She had just gotten the post August 31 and was making the trip to California to start work.

[P class=text]Bob Speisman, 47, was from Irvington, New York.

[P class=text]Hilda Taylor was a sixth-grade teacher at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. She was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

[P class=text]Leonard Taylor was from Reston, Virginia.

[P class=text]Leslie A. Whittington, 45, was from University Park, Maryland. The professor of public policy at Georgetown University in Washington was traveling with her husband, Charles Falkenberg, 45, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3. They were traveling to Los Angeles to catch a connection to Australia. Whittington had been named a visiting fellow at Australian National University in Canberra.

[P class=text]John Yamnicky, 71, was from Waldorf, Maryland.

[P class=text]Vicki Yancey

[P class=text]Shuyin Yang

[P class=text]Yuguag Zheng

 

Please

Eyewitness accounts: [A href="http://eric.bart.free.fr/iwpb/witness.html"]http://eric.bart.free.fr/iwpb/witness.html[/A]  

TehBorken

Please yourself. Posting a passenger list doesn't 'prove' anything one way or the other.

Maybe you can tell me, where did the wings go?
The real trouble with reality is that there's no background music.

primefactor

Where did the passenger list come from? I would like to follow up on the whole thing. Have there been comments/explanations from engineers and scientists about how those holes might have ended up looking like that, and where the wings went, and other fishy-sounding stuff? And if so, for whom do the quoted experts work? (Consider the source -- ALWAYS consider the source! -- when listening to the arguments from BOTH sides, I always say...) I am not trying to ask either pointed or rhetorical questions on this subject, I am just very very curious at this point.

And props to James Randi! He is one of my top-ten HEROES!

JoJo

I have heard several first hand accounts of people actually seeing the 757 just prior to impact, one of them was from a prominent Canadian lefty who happened to be in the area at the time (was it Stephen Lewis... can't remember exactly who it was, will have to dig around on Google to see exactly who it was.) Also, I am not sure if you people thing that an aircraft wing (or any part of an aircraft) is solid steel. It's basically just a thin skin on a lightweight skeleton... no match for the beefy structure of the Pentagon. http://news.uns.purdue.edu/html4ever/020910.Sozen.Pentagon.html http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/pentagon_20020316.html