Are current DV mods fostering ill will?

Started by Moolah!, Jun 06 06 08:04

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Trollio

The admin of DV is posting here?
 
 Seems that the Curse of Bebu came true after all. All hell has broken loose over there.
 
 
   
one must be intelligent to get intelligent answers.
— bebu

Trollio

Some Chick wrote:

 [div style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(128, 0, 0);"]There is no reason to allow someone to troll starting a hate thread about Muslims, Hispanics, Chinese or ANYONE.  [/div] [div style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(128, 0, 0);"] [/div] [div style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(128, 0, 0);"]<snip>
 [/div] [div style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(128, 0, 0);"] [/div] [div style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(128, 0, 0);"]But seriously, when someone is posting that another person, one whom they have never met, is a slut, or a lesbian... That SHOULD be deleted.  And if the same person is posting the same woman hater post (copied and pasted) it should be deleted.[/div] [div style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(128, 0, 0);"] [/div] [div style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(128, 0, 0);"]If someone is posting to troll for a racial argument, that SHOULD be deleted.[/div] [div style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(128, 0, 0);"] [/div] [div style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(128, 0, 0);"]If there are photos of porn or gore, specifically human gore, DELETE![/div]  
 Why? I'm not saying that I like those things, but how can you say that no one can ever post such things. It's not your forum. I'm not at all down with this "hate speech" stuff, where people are trying to muffle any opinions anywhere they find objectionable. Key word there is anywhere. If you don't want it in your home, good for you. But when it comes to what people create on their own time in their own space, you don't have the right to go into their space and tell them how to think or not think. One of the best reasons why is because it will not change the way they think. It will however, piss them off, and give them more reason to hate you and those others that they hate anyway. The best way to deal with unpleasant speech is with more speech, not less.
 
 Trying to remove hate, or other things you find unpleasant in the human condition from the internet is like trying to remove salt from the ocean. If you don't like what you see on an internet forum, then do what you have done: leave it. There are thousands out there to choose from. I just do not think you or I have the right to tell DV what they can and cannot have up on their forum. And except for those things which are in themselves criminal by their existence (child pornography, incitement to a specific criminal act -- e.g. "go to X place and burn it down"), I don't think the government should be in the thought police business either.
 
 [/div][div style="color: rgb(128, 0, 0); font-style: italic;"]Oh, and they need to define a set of Rules of Conduct.  Break the rules and you're gone.
 
 That's what you say. But again, what right do you have to dictate the rules (such as they are) of their forum to them? Here on DS we have clear rules that we agree to when you register. Your comment is completely valid here. But where a forum does not have -- or obviously does not want to have -- a code of conduct, then again, your best choice and your only right is to vote with your feet. You have no right to impose your visions or views on anyone else at their forum (at least not more than anyone else who posts there), and they're not making you read their nonsense.
 
 
[span style="color: rgb(128, 0, 0); font-style: italic;"]I have approached another Vancouver organization to set up forums.  I should know something soon.[/span]
 
 That is how to deal with it. Just be aware that DV risks getting hit by competition from the other side as well; that is, by a forum that registers users who agree that they are over 18 and are entering a free for all where anything goes, including the kind of ideas and words you find offensive. Let a hundred flowers bloom; some will be pretty and sweet, and some will be nasty old weeds.
 
 Sorry if this sounds harsh, but rather than complain about what you don't want to see, why not create something you do want to see instead. You know, light the candle instead of cursing the darkness?
     
one must be intelligent to get intelligent answers.
— bebu

TehBorken

   Someone PM'd me with this, apparently from a post on DV:

"[font style="font-style: italic;" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2"]The DS administrator (TehBork) would have to delete that thread if DVMike or anyone involved with DV/CZ request him to especially if there's a court order involved per defamation or whatever ala our dear friend AF who bleated about such things per DV." [/font][font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2"]

There's a lot of misunderstanding about this kind of thing, so let me clear it up.

Anyone can request I do something like remove a post, but that's about it. [/font][font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2"] I can't be forced to remove posts that aren't intrinsically illegal (like child porn, inciting criminal acts, etc), regardless of what anyone claims.

Expressions of opinion ("President Bush is insane", "Web site X is Teh Lame") just don't count except in extremely specific circumstances. Defamation rarely applies to situations such as comments made on a message board; again, there have to be some [/font][font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2"]extremely specific circumstances. [/font][font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2"]

[/font][font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2"]The truth is that the entire Canadian government can't force me to remove a post if I don't want to*. That's because Canadian laws don't apply to US citizens.  International law just doesn't work that way. If it did, countries that prohibit cars could sue you for having one.


[/font]
*[font size="1"]Unless they sent ninja assasins to take me out, of course.[/font]


 Edited for clarity (I hope). - tb  [font size="1"][/font]


The real trouble with reality is that there's no background music.

Moolah!

TehBorken wrote:
Someone PM'd me with this, apparently from a post on DV:
[FONT size=2]
[SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic"]"[/SPAN][/FONT][FONT style="FONT-STYLE: italic" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2]The DS administrator (TehBork) would have to delete that thread if DVMike or anyone involved with DV/CZ request him to especially if there's a court order involved per defamation or whatever ala our dear friend AF who bleated about such things per DV." [/FONT][FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2]
[/FONT]

 [FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2]^ That's "macademe logick". [A onclick="addImg('icon/icon_smile_shy.gif')" href="jvascript:void(0)"][/A] [/FONT]

 [FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2]I was going to bring it up with you, I'm glad you clarified. [/FONT]

*  Please unban me!! please please please  *

Some Chick

Trollio wrote:
 
Why? I'm not saying that I like those things, but how can you say that no one can ever post such things. [SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic"]It's not your forum.[/SPAN]

  [FONT face="Arial Narrow" color=#00407f]I found the forum when I was looking for information on Vancouver, which is my city of residence.  If the administrators are going to use Vancouver's name to make money off of advertising, and "Discover" then I think it's incumbent upon them to represent it's residents responsibly and not just let the immature, the bored, the lonely and the mentally ill cavort at will.  I don't know if you've ever tried posting there, but things got so bad they now have warnings on the posts.[/FONT]

[FONT face="Arial Narrow" color=#a94a76][/FONT]

 Trollio wrote:
"I just do not think you or I have the right to tell DV what they can and cannot have up on their forum. And except for those things which are [SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic"]in themselves criminal by their existence[/SPAN] (child pornography, incitement to a specific criminal act -- e.g. "go to X place and burn it down"), "

   [FONT face="Arial Narrow" color=#00407f]People were doing just that, and the posts remained.  I remember one man telling all other men to spit on women of their race that were dating caucasians.  Strangers.  Innocent women minding their own business walking down our streets.  He continued posting the same thread over and over whenever it sank to the bottom.[/FONT]

[FONT face="Arial Narrow" color=#00407f][/FONT]

[FONT face="Arial Narrow"][FONT color=#00407f]THAT is in MY city, and I'll be damned if I'm going to sit back and know that's going on and just allow it to grow.
[/FONT][/FONT]

[DIV style="COLOR: rgb(128,0,0); FONT-STYLE: italic"] [FONT color=#000000]Trollio wrote:[/FONT]

[DIV style="COLOR: rgb(128,0,0); FONT-STYLE: italic"][FONT color=#000000]"Here on DS we have clear rules that we agree to when you register. Your comment is completely valid [SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic"]here[/SPAN]. You have no right to impose your visions or views on anyone else at their forum (at least not more than anyone else who posts there), and they're not [SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic"]making[/SPAN] you read their nonsense."[/FONT]

[FONT face="Arial Narrow" color=#00407f]I've been around forums and the internet long enough to know that I can not "impose" anything on the anonymous admins running things.  I left that forum for a few months when it got really horrific and only returned when they cleaned up their act, but they've begun another downward spiral.[/FONT]

 [DIV style="COLOR: rgb(128,0,0); FONT-STYLE: italic"]



[SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(128,0,0); FONT-STYLE: italic"]I have approached another Vancouver organization to set up forums.  I should know something soon.[/SPAN]

[SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic"]Trollio Wrote:[/SPAN]

[SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic"]"That[/SPAN] is how to deal with it."

  [FONT face="Arial Narrow" color=#00407f]Of course it is.  It's just a pity that they haven't done what they've promised for a year.[/FONT][/DIV][FONT face="Arial Narrow" color=#00407f][/FONT]
Trollio Wrote:

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but rather than complain about what you don't want to see, why not create something you do want to see instead. You know, light the candle instead of cursing the darkness?

  [FONT face="Arial Narrow" color=#00407f]You already acknowledged that I have done just that, so ....[/FONT]
     
 

TehBorken

 Some Chick wrote:
[em][font color="#00407f" face="Arial Narrow"]I remember one man telling all other men to spit on women of their race that were dating caucasians.  Strangers.  Innocent women minding their own business walking down our streets.  He continued posting the same thread over and over whenever it sank to the bottom.

[/font][/em]I'll be the first one to say that's disgusting and repulsive, but it is free speech. Whoever made those comments is an ass, but he has the right to be an ass. And we have the right to reply in overwhelming numbers telling him that he's a sick piece of crap.

As soon as you start censoring speech that isn't blatantly illegal you have to moderate it all, and then spend the rest of your life making endless judgement calls about what's "okay" and what's not. I don't know about you, but I don't relish the idea of spending my days that way.

Would those kinds of comments be deleted here? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. For me it's more a matter of whether or not the comments are disrupting the forum in a way that prevents people from using it.

 
The real trouble with reality is that there's no background music.

P.C.

TehBorken !!!!  (Long time no see.)    [img style="CURSOR: pointer" onclick=url(this.src); src="http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/more/bigs/a025.gif" border=0]

  Well put !
Sir Isaac Newton invented the swinging door....for the convenience of his cat.

Trollio

Some Chick wrote:  [em][font color="#00407f" face="Arial Narrow"]
 I found the forum when I was looking for information on Vancouver, which is my city of residence.  If the administrators are going to use Vancouver's name to make money off of advertising, and "Discover" then I think it's incumbent upon them to represent it's residents responsibly and not just let the immature, the bored, the lonely and the mentally ill cavort at will.  I don't know if you've ever tried posting there, but things got so bad they now have warnings on the posts.[/font][/em]  If you were talking about a site that was created or sponsored by the government, I have no argument with you whatsoever. But consider the wisdom of Bebu, expressed on DV:
 [/p] [font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"][font style="font-family: times new roman; color: rgb(128, 0, 0);" size="2"] The people who run this place also run Vancouver's meat markets; their objective is to ramp you up with shocking crap and keep this place hopping. That's why you watch what happens here like a crack addict. If you don't make the dope yourselves, they have to. Think about that.[/font]
 [/font][/p] [font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"][font style="font-family: tahoma;" size="2"]You also said:[/font] [/font]
[span style="color: rgb(0, 64, 127);"]  [/span][span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 64, 127);"]I have approached another Vancouver organization to set up forums.[/span][font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"][span style="color: rgb(0, 64, 127);"] [/span]
 [/font][/p] [p style="font-family: tahoma;"]That might be where the crux of the matter lies. "Organization" implies responsibility, and I'm not sure that a string of nightclubs qualifies as a Vancouver organization. I think you may have been duped into thinking that a private forum on a private website somehow represents more than it does because of what it calls itself. Anyone can use the name Vancouver, whether they're selling tourist excursions, hot dogs, tyres, or strippers. [/p]  
one must be intelligent to get intelligent answers.
— bebu

Lise

Boy.... reading all these posts... I am so so so so so glad (to inifinity) that I am no longer part of the DV admin crap ring.  
Always end the name of your child with a vowel, so that when you yell the name will carry.
Bill Cosby.

Chicklet

It's seems to me to be such a fine line between a persons morals and everyones rights as human beings whether you are from the states or Canada.  I know some of the stuff on DV bothers me, but once I see it in a thread, I don't go back in.  There isn't much 'illegal' activity going on there just a bunch of ignorant children playing what they think of as 'cool'.  Trollio is right.  If you don't like it then don't participate.  I also agree with Some Chick that the owners of DV aren't helping to represent us Vancouverites  in the best light and perhaps they need to rename the forum so others looking for actual info on this beautiful city can find what they are looking for.  But I'm a realist and I know that that will never happen.
'In every group of human beings you will find a few specimens of below average intelligence, above average ego and spectacularly bad judgement.' - tenkani

Lise

The honest truth is the owners of DV couldn't care less what happens to DV unless the forum is hacked or attacked blantantly. According to Mike, DV is the least of their concern as they're focusing on other projects. So you can see how much he cares about DV and the opinions of ppl.
Always end the name of your child with a vowel, so that when you yell the name will carry.
Bill Cosby.

Chicklet

I would like to put forth an idea.

We can go around and around about the pitfalls of DV and nothing may ever come of it.  I suggest that we go back to talking about lunch, weekend plans and discussing the various topics TehBorken and SD bring to us each day.  The subject of DV seems to get everyone rilled up and I hate to see anyone unhappy.  We have a nice little world here so let's not spoil it.  I know that I don't want to talk about this anymore, it just makes me mad and sad.

Anyone with me?
'In every group of human beings you will find a few specimens of below average intelligence, above average ego and spectacularly bad judgement.' - tenkani

Lise

Chicklet wrote:
I would like to put forth an idea.

We can go around and around about the pitfalls of DV and nothing may ever come of it.  I suggest that we go back to talking about lunch, weekend plans and discussing the various topics TehBorken and SD bring to us each day.  The subject of DV seems to get everyone rilled up and I hate to see anyone unhappy.  We have a nice little world here so let's not spoil it.  I know that I don't want to talk about this anymore, it just makes me mad and sad.

Anyone with me?


 

 Well.... sometimes it's nice to vent.......................................................


 
Always end the name of your child with a vowel, so that when you yell the name will carry.
Bill Cosby.

Sportsdude

I remember when Mike was on BCCTV explaining the DV controversy about the olympic logo.  Ever since then DV has been a troll fest.
"We can't stop here. This is bat country."

Chicklet

I completely agree Lise,but we have been going around and around with this for quite a few days.

You know what?  It was wrong of me to ask that everyone move on.  If someone still wants to discuss then they should have ervy right. Sorry.  Geez, you would think that I was a MOD or something.


*I will delete this thread if anyone else posts to it*
'In every group of human beings you will find a few specimens of below average intelligence, above average ego and spectacularly bad judgement.' - tenkani

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